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They ARE hurting...

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

They ARE hurting...

Old 16th Dec 2007, 05:11
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 166
They ARE hurting...

Many instances of Crew Control ringing pilots on days off, Captains as RQ or as FO, flights being fully crewed just at the last minute. Crew Controllers openly admitting they are desperate, openly lying about the reasons for calling you in etc etc etc.

Keep the pressure up. One day they will have to cancel some flights. Questions will be asked. Heads will roll. Watch this space.....

DON"T work on your days off, DON"T be contactable. It has all been said before. Rest assured, the pressure is on. This company is keeping the flights going purely on YOUR good will. Ask yourself, what do YOU get in return in the long run? (Apart from maybe some good overtime purely because they are desperate...)
rick.shaw is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2007, 05:13
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: usa
Age: 41
Posts: 49
I'm guessing by the post that they do have junior manning at cx.
ashcroft79 is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2007, 05:22
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Over There
Posts: 745
Just don't work a "G" day or you're mud!
cpdude is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2007, 08:09
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: U.S.
Posts: 342
I was phoned again yesterday, I can't remember how many times this has happened in the last few months. Didn't answer my phone, as always. Desperate message needing someone to go to London. No more calls. Looked at the crewing a bit later, and it was a cadet that had taken the callout. Not sure how often this happens. Maybe they feel more intimidated by the company, maybe they just want to help out. I have nothing against cadets, I do however have something against someone hurting the rest of the pilot group for their own interest. Please don't work on your Gdays, just enjoy the day off!!

boxjockey is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2007, 08:56
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 22°18'32"N 113°54'52"E
Posts: 68
If you were talking about a SO call-out on the Airbus fleet to LHR, I do believe that the ex-cadet who took the flight was on reserve.
sgsslok is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2007, 09:23
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 619
Until we are directed otherwise we are free to do whatever we want. And that direction would only apply to AOA members.

I find any witch hunting on PPRuNe a little pointless...lets try not to be divisive until we are directed to be....
Numero Crunchero is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2007, 10:11
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: On the Mekong
Posts: 27
Thumbs up

I total agree that you should NOT work on G days , absolutely 100 % .

I think answering the phones on G days ( O days completely different ) is a good idea .

I am sure the PW and NR get told by crew control we had a 100% success rate in crewing our aircraft today ," i only got in contact with one person and he agreed to work " ,

instead of we rang " 20 people and all declined to work "

That sends a completely different story to PW and NR , It tells them moral is shot and most of the crew don't give a shit anymore

you don't have to work on a G day , the Managers don't work on weekends , so they don't expect for you to work on your days off .
greencandreaming is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2007, 10:14
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: VHHH
Posts: 127

I look forward to meeting you! I can't wait to go drinking with you while on a trip. Have you considered helping at the cadet recruitment events at the local universities?
Guru is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2007, 11:46
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 58

Last i checked...Hong kong is still part of china and not malaysia or other asian country... thats y majority of cx cadets are chinese... idi0t
cyrex is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2007, 12:45
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: H.K.
Age: 47
Posts: 135
Crew crises

My flight depart in 36 hours, still no Capt on the roster. Think they are hurting.
CXtreme is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2007, 13:37
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near By
Posts: 25
...Working on a G Day ....

Its been said before but .... If you feel that you REALLY must work on a G day look at the proffer board .... Invariably it works out at a lot more than 2.5% AND it helps out a colleague in a difficult situation, NOT a multinational corporation who can quite frankly afford to pay more.
CXpletive is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2007, 15:21
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WestCoast
Posts: 74
may I ask, what is the proffer board?
NewEssO is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2007, 22:30
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near By
Posts: 25
Anthracx ....Flight Crew .... Crew Direct .....Mutual Exchange and Proffering .....Bulletin Board / Proffering ....

Arrow at the top of Category column sorts it into type and rank .... You can then work your G Days until your hearts content!

If you want to proffer a trip, bracket it as you would a swap. It is then posted as an available trip and any party within the same Category who has a G can pick it up. The Company deduct the credit hours from the proffering parties payroll and the other party is paid via payroll. FTLS 1 in 7 and 2 in 14 are the usual stumbling blocks as the rosters are becoming so tight.

Rates are I believe:

$250 per hour forSO
$500 FO
$1000 Capt.

AS long as it isn't a TPE, MNL or XMN it will pay you more than a G Day call out (2.5%) and be helping out a colleague.

In the last rostering "deal" The Company were quite keen to do away with the system as it was under utilised. Looking at it this morning though I think it may be catching on!
CXpletive is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2007, 05:50
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 344
Recent Fleet Forums are quoting up to 60 letters of thanks to crew who worked on G days in the last month.
Harbour Dweller is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2007, 07:11
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: mars
Posts: 206
and those 60 letters were on one fleet alone....
Humber10 is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2007, 08:23
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: England
Posts: 36
So are you guys telling me that my recent offer of F/O 747-400 in Europe is not worth going for then?
Katanaman is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2007, 09:22
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 258
Step 1: Refuse to fly freighter flights. If your CoS and Letter of Employment allows, refuse to fly the freighter. Advise the company by email that you do not want to “volunteer” to fly freighter flights. MAKE SURE YOU DO THIS NOW, WHILE THE FACA STILL EXISTS. WHEN IT IS RE-INSTATED AFTER THE AOA'S LEGAL CHALLENGE, YOU WILL ALREADY HAVE EXPRESSED YOUR WISH.

Step 2: Do not answer the phone. Don’t help crew control out by giving them a solution to the crewing crisis.

Step 3: Do not operate into discretion. A captain’s right not to operate into discretion cannot be questioned.

Step 4: Do not work on a G-day. Even if it is favourable to you.

Step 5: Do not check Crew Direct or call crew control, except on those occasions you are required to.

Step 6: Discourage new joiners from joining under the “C-scale” of CoS08.

Or you could just act like grownups and think for yourselves.
AnQrKa is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2007, 15:57
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In my own underpants - most of the time - that is!
Posts: 66
Why not pick up the phone on at G-day? All you have to say is; sorry CAN-NOT to busy enjoying life away from work! Be honest and tell them up their face. Who the hell wants to work on G-day anyways..
ChairmanBoysClub is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2007, 21:44
  #19 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 619
AFTLS - be careful

I am amazed at how many operations are being conducted that are on the edge of the AFTLS limits.

EG, a pilot operated to NA - about 5-6hrs into his hotel rest CC rang him and asked would he work in about 6 more hours to get a flight back to hkg. He asked if that was legal and CC assured him it was....it wasn't!

Simple rule - if you are on the end of an ULR, you need Physiological rest - this can be reduced to Normal rest. Normal rest is 12hrs or previous duty period, whichever is GREATER. So for a LA that would mean about 13:40. Once you have foregone Physiological rest for Normal rest you cannot exercise para 25(reduction of rest period) to get the "10 hrs in the room".

I have spoken to a few guys who were called out to do ULRs and then on return to base IMMEDIATELY go on Reserve for the remaining 2-3 days of the reserve pattern. This is legal(just), but the beginning of a slippery slide of reduced safety. Mind you, the mathematician still argues that the rule limiting time zone crossing to 12hrs is redundant as nowhere on earth is more than 12 time zones away from HKG!!! What's that Copernicus, HKG is the centre of the universe????

Be careful with the rules guys/gals...CC has a high turnover and may make errors. Ultimately it is your responsibility to be legal!
Numero Crunchero is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2007, 22:50
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Asia
Age: 52
Posts: 2,588
Numero Crunchero

Which is another good reason to let the call, when you legally can, slip through to the keeper, in this case message bank. This gives you the benefit of time to check all is legal.
404 Titan is offline  

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