Cathay (AOA) and Dragonair (DPA) pilots join forces
It's that round thing with a badge on the front which they give you when you join and it ends up it the kids dressing up box.
The point I made earlier about membership levels is very valid. The DPA is strong and perhaps the CX pilots think that's good and think maybe they would like some of that. However, the reason for the strength of the DPA is that the workforce are united. Get a bunch of CX pilots together and they couldn't agree on the colour of sh!te let alone come together and form a cohesive body. Just look at the infighting on this website for an example. It's not neccessarily the CX pilot's fault, they have been manipulated by a management which has had a very successful 'divide and conquer' policy.
If the CX A salers could get along with the B scalers who could get on with the ex ASL guys who could get on with the guys who joined during the ban who could get on with the guys who left the AOA after the 49ers incident who could get on with............. oh, never mind. You get the picture!
Combine the two and you would get a weaker body with yet another division - the disgruntled and sidelined KA guys who don't feel represented. Until the AOA can heal the divisions and get the membership levels up, there is no point in joining forces.
The point I made earlier about membership levels is very valid. The DPA is strong and perhaps the CX pilots think that's good and think maybe they would like some of that. However, the reason for the strength of the DPA is that the workforce are united. Get a bunch of CX pilots together and they couldn't agree on the colour of sh!te let alone come together and form a cohesive body. Just look at the infighting on this website for an example. It's not neccessarily the CX pilot's fault, they have been manipulated by a management which has had a very successful 'divide and conquer' policy.
If the CX A salers could get along with the B scalers who could get on with the ex ASL guys who could get on with the guys who joined during the ban who could get on with the guys who left the AOA after the 49ers incident who could get on with............. oh, never mind. You get the picture!
Combine the two and you would get a weaker body with yet another division - the disgruntled and sidelined KA guys who don't feel represented. Until the AOA can heal the divisions and get the membership levels up, there is no point in joining forces.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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The way forward!
I believe a combined force is the only way forward. We are one big happy family now and whilst it is impossible to imagine a totally harmonious and friction free relationship due self interest and self perceived/imposed hierarchy it would be a long term and big picture win for the pilot body to show a united front to the company. Why not rebadge and reform under a new banner. This has serious merit as it would allow disenfranchised AOA members a new start therby raising membership levels again as well as allow the integration of the workforce to be done with input from us rather than it being imposed upon us without consultation.
I would like to see the two Gen Coms begin official discussion as to the possibility of integrating and rebadging as well as all of us talking to our mates from the different camps. As has been pointed out here we are all just blokes trying to raise a family and/or have a reasonable lifestyle. There is very little to be gained by mistrust and self interest from either camp.
I would like to see the two Gen Coms begin official discussion as to the possibility of integrating and rebadging as well as all of us talking to our mates from the different camps. As has been pointed out here we are all just blokes trying to raise a family and/or have a reasonable lifestyle. There is very little to be gained by mistrust and self interest from either camp.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Taiwan
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DPAC
The DPAC has had quite an negotiated offer from RH. It has yet to be voted on by the membership, therefore the job is not done.
Presuming the offer is accepted, there is still work required to negotiated the various bits that are still motherhood statements without the neccessary detail.
The DPA has approached the AOA in the past without great interest from the AOA. Right now I would wish for the DPAC to continue their great work consolidating their wins.
RH appears to understand some of the issues KA pilots face. The DPAC will continue to have their hands full resolving the outstanding issues. This is the first Com in my KA time to have real success.
The AOA can wait for a later time.
Presuming the offer is accepted, there is still work required to negotiated the various bits that are still motherhood statements without the neccessary detail.
The DPA has approached the AOA in the past without great interest from the AOA. Right now I would wish for the DPAC to continue their great work consolidating their wins.
RH appears to understand some of the issues KA pilots face. The DPAC will continue to have their hands full resolving the outstanding issues. This is the first Com in my KA time to have real success.
The AOA can wait for a later time.
I fully agree with BusyB.
I believe that the integration of the AOA and the DPA is long overdue.
One has to be prepared to take a stand for what one believes in, otherwise one is doomed to forever hide behind mommy's skirts.
I believe that the integration of the AOA and the DPA is long overdue.
One has to be prepared to take a stand for what one believes in, otherwise one is doomed to forever hide behind mommy's skirts.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: bottom of the harbour
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25 cents worth
I can see by your join date of Dec 2007 that you have extensive experience and insight into the complex world of aviation in the harbour. I can also tell by your well reasoned comments that you are an antaganonistic little see you Next Tuesday but as this is not a personal assault I will cease and desist.
My earlier comments about rebadging and aligning the unions (of which you are clearly a concientious objector so I don't see how this is of interest to you) was based on the fact that all of us who have been here a while acknowledge labor laws in HK do not allow much leeway when it comes to industrial action in whatever form it takes. My reasoning is that we all realise our unions are not as strong as they might perhaps be in our home countries but and this is the big BUTT (not unlike my wifes) it is all we have and if we can make it strong then it is a voice that will be listened to.
Regards to all during the festering season!
I can see by your join date of Dec 2007 that you have extensive experience and insight into the complex world of aviation in the harbour. I can also tell by your well reasoned comments that you are an antaganonistic little see you Next Tuesday but as this is not a personal assault I will cease and desist.
My earlier comments about rebadging and aligning the unions (of which you are clearly a concientious objector so I don't see how this is of interest to you) was based on the fact that all of us who have been here a while acknowledge labor laws in HK do not allow much leeway when it comes to industrial action in whatever form it takes. My reasoning is that we all realise our unions are not as strong as they might perhaps be in our home countries but and this is the big BUTT (not unlike my wifes) it is all we have and if we can make it strong then it is a voice that will be listened to.
Regards to all during the festering season!
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: BC
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Integrating the unions would only serve to better the AOA, not by gaining some great union members, but by being able to control their fate...
The stronger, cohesive DPA would be rolled into the larger, fractured AOA. Who do you think would gain control of this new union? You would still have the likes of ST and his feeble minions running the show, with a couple ineffective seats on the GC made available to the incoming KA pilots. All the strength and character the DPA had, would be inevitability lost in the AOA autocracy.
More importantly, when it comes time to integrate the seniority lists, which scenario do you think would better serve KA pilots?
1) Having a strong accomplished DPA negotiating for their pilots with the CX management?
2) Having a previously combined union where the old AOA has the power to dictate, as previously shown on the latest RP decision, where KA pilots would be folded into the list?
Interesting init?
The stronger, cohesive DPA would be rolled into the larger, fractured AOA. Who do you think would gain control of this new union? You would still have the likes of ST and his feeble minions running the show, with a couple ineffective seats on the GC made available to the incoming KA pilots. All the strength and character the DPA had, would be inevitability lost in the AOA autocracy.
More importantly, when it comes time to integrate the seniority lists, which scenario do you think would better serve KA pilots?
1) Having a strong accomplished DPA negotiating for their pilots with the CX management?
2) Having a previously combined union where the old AOA has the power to dictate, as previously shown on the latest RP decision, where KA pilots would be folded into the list?
Interesting init?
Join Date: Jun 2000
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I think the Cx boys should talk to any aussie pilots who know the story with Qantas/Jetstar 
Jetstar were bought by Qantas and because the idiots who wore hats didn't talk to the guys who didn't wear hats, Jetstar commands/new aircraft have come thick and fast with lower seniority QF pilots getting shafted
KA pilots will still be cheaper than CX pilots after the payrise and anybody who thinks anybody other than the bean counters run aviation companies have no idea of management in the 21st century
Junior pilots don't think the senior pilots will look after you. Combined seniority will work even as a Y list.
First rule of industrial negotiation divide and conquer
Jetstar were bought by Qantas and because the idiots who wore hats didn't talk to the guys who didn't wear hats, Jetstar commands/new aircraft have come thick and fast with lower seniority QF pilots getting shafted
KA pilots will still be cheaper than CX pilots after the payrise and anybody who thinks anybody other than the bean counters run aviation companies have no idea of management in the 21st century
Junior pilots don't think the senior pilots will look after you. Combined seniority will work even as a Y list.
First rule of industrial negotiation divide and conquer
