Why the hell?
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I feel your pain!!!!
Mate,
I HEAR YOU!!!!
I appologise for the caps..... But I can't stress that enough.
We are in the command seat at the moment, yet we let them drive us around like sheep. The fact that the company bypassed us all and just implemented the changes with COS08 just goes to show what they think of us, nothing!!!
If we don't do something now, when will we????
Grow a spine and do something about it now.
And for all you who say that we will face another 49ers issue..... it will NEVER happen again. The company made a HUGE mistake there, and they know it. Lets make a stand now. If we dont now, we will be F****** for the next several years. Nick can sit there and talk about the fact that he wants to open talks about pay etc for the next X amount of years...... you and I know that we will just get another couple of percent. Hardly enough to make a dent on your bank balance.......
It's now or never...... you decide. But grow some b**** and vote with your head. Lets not let them dictate our lives like they have for years....
I HEAR YOU!!!!
I appologise for the caps..... But I can't stress that enough.
We are in the command seat at the moment, yet we let them drive us around like sheep. The fact that the company bypassed us all and just implemented the changes with COS08 just goes to show what they think of us, nothing!!!
If we don't do something now, when will we????
Grow a spine and do something about it now.
And for all you who say that we will face another 49ers issue..... it will NEVER happen again. The company made a HUGE mistake there, and they know it. Lets make a stand now. If we dont now, we will be F****** for the next several years. Nick can sit there and talk about the fact that he wants to open talks about pay etc for the next X amount of years...... you and I know that we will just get another couple of percent. Hardly enough to make a dent on your bank balance.......
It's now or never...... you decide. But grow some b**** and vote with your head. Lets not let them dictate our lives like they have for years....
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Regarding the 49er issue. Why not have the AOA circulate a petition that everyone signs. It will declare that there will be an immediate work stoppage if a single member is sacked. This is the best (and probably only) chance that we have ever had to obtain proper career conditions. Who will sign?
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He is paying his subs and he has got a vote going in the right direction.
I call this a good start Buster... mind you, you are correct if the union leaders dont actively represent the majority.
I call this a good start Buster... mind you, you are correct if the union leaders dont actively represent the majority.
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Guys.....we need to get down off our self appointed pilot pedestals! Cathay is never going to give us a pay rise because they think we are owed one, or because we are so highly trained, or inflation has gone up, or our purchasing power has been degraded etc etc etc.
If you were NR....would you sit at the Swire board meeting and explain that although no current pilot shortage exists, you have given a 15% payrise to the pilot body? I think any board would have a hard time swallowing that. Whilst the interview slots are full, and training is running at full steam with a steady stream of new joiners coming through the door, we've got no chance of any significant rise.
Cathay exists for one reason only...to make money. Pilot's are but one cog in this money making machine. It's not a boys flying club any more....it's big business. The only reason the company will improve pay and conditions for this small cog is if they need to.
The only way we will see a significant improvement in pay is if Cathay can't attract people to join, or cannot retain those who are already here.
The only way we can accelerate this improvement is to either leave ourselves for better pay, or discourage new joiners from joining on inferior pay.
It's not rocket science....just basic market forces.
If you were NR....would you sit at the Swire board meeting and explain that although no current pilot shortage exists, you have given a 15% payrise to the pilot body? I think any board would have a hard time swallowing that. Whilst the interview slots are full, and training is running at full steam with a steady stream of new joiners coming through the door, we've got no chance of any significant rise.
Cathay exists for one reason only...to make money. Pilot's are but one cog in this money making machine. It's not a boys flying club any more....it's big business. The only reason the company will improve pay and conditions for this small cog is if they need to.
The only way we will see a significant improvement in pay is if Cathay can't attract people to join, or cannot retain those who are already here.
The only way we can accelerate this improvement is to either leave ourselves for better pay, or discourage new joiners from joining on inferior pay.
It's not rocket science....just basic market forces.
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Dan you are quite correct
I do however (and will continue) to suppot the AOA. I expect a reponse and I've seen nothing apart from a letter that tellls me nothing
I am not on PPrune to offend - just to offer an opinion
Get the hell off your high horse - and shut the F%%% up - a%%%
cheers
I do however (and will continue) to suppot the AOA. I expect a reponse and I've seen nothing apart from a letter that tellls me nothing
I am not on PPrune to offend - just to offer an opinion
Get the hell off your high horse - and shut the F%%% up - a%%%
cheers
Last edited by jack744; 17th Nov 2007 at 15:11.
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Is it just me or do AOA newsletters seem to apologise for company actions? I thought the AOA was there to further the interests of the pilot body...not the interests of the employer of the pilot body!
LUVMUHUD:
100% correct, this is now happening in KA.
We need atleast 50 Captains to quit and very few to join before CX will throw money at us.
The only way we will see a significant improvement in pay is if Cathay can't attract people to join, or cannot retain those who are already here.
We need atleast 50 Captains to quit and very few to join before CX will throw money at us.
yes 50 over 6 months would need to leave in a huff before CX will notice.
34 left KA in 6 months and it made CX take notice, so a bigger outfit like CX would need 50 to go.
Only a wild guess on my part though.
34 left KA in 6 months and it made CX take notice, so a bigger outfit like CX would need 50 to go.
Only a wild guess on my part though.
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Since when do we pluralize words with an apostrophe?
Luvmuhud pluralized pilots with "pilot's" and 400 Jockey pluralized agendas with "agenda's." When I got into flying, a university degree was a requirement. How did you morons pass your English courses? Even primary school education teaches us that an apostrophe shows possession, not pluralization!
On another note, stop blaming the AOA. I've said it over and over again: a "union" is only as strong as its membership willingness for contract compliance or a strike. This will NEVER happen at Cathay. YOU know it and I know it. So, stop wasting your keystrokes and either leave or shut up! We're going to take what the company gives us and lose what the company takes. Whoever has the gonads to take a chance (yeah, an element of risk!), will leave if he's unhappy. Only then, as some of you have said, will Cathay make a positive change in our remuneration.
Companies don't pay their workers more money because they want to pay them more; they pay them more because it's cheaper than training replacements. Of course, the cost of replacements must also include the increased risk of hull loss due to the inexperience of those replacements. Don't you realize that Cathay factors all this into its "deal" for us? They are certainly not stupid. They continue to make profits and have not had a hull loss in many, many years. It is only when their operation starts to degrade that they will consider changing things. This has certainly not happened yet, and, from all the whining I read here and the lack of ACTION, will not happen soon.
Get a grip!
Luvmuhud pluralized pilots with "pilot's" and 400 Jockey pluralized agendas with "agenda's." When I got into flying, a university degree was a requirement. How did you morons pass your English courses? Even primary school education teaches us that an apostrophe shows possession, not pluralization!
On another note, stop blaming the AOA. I've said it over and over again: a "union" is only as strong as its membership willingness for contract compliance or a strike. This will NEVER happen at Cathay. YOU know it and I know it. So, stop wasting your keystrokes and either leave or shut up! We're going to take what the company gives us and lose what the company takes. Whoever has the gonads to take a chance (yeah, an element of risk!), will leave if he's unhappy. Only then, as some of you have said, will Cathay make a positive change in our remuneration.
Companies don't pay their workers more money because they want to pay them more; they pay them more because it's cheaper than training replacements. Of course, the cost of replacements must also include the increased risk of hull loss due to the inexperience of those replacements. Don't you realize that Cathay factors all this into its "deal" for us? They are certainly not stupid. They continue to make profits and have not had a hull loss in many, many years. It is only when their operation starts to degrade that they will consider changing things. This has certainly not happened yet, and, from all the whining I read here and the lack of ACTION, will not happen soon.
Get a grip!
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Nice little getogether you guys have here - despite nobody having said anything new or interesting so far - we have established that in CX we have an english teacher, a pr!#k, an @ss and a few other interesting characters. Must we why we are the best in the world.
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My only criticism of you, 400, was your grammar. I DID read your post, and I do NOT criticise its content. My statement (other than the grammar critique) was a GENERAL one directed to ALL those on this forum who whine and whine and whine.
Whining solves nothing. This forum should be a place for constructive ideas which bring this divided pilot group together. Unfortunately, it is not, and never will be. Cathay knows that we are divided and will forever remain this way. That is why there are so many different pay scales and companies which employ us. Each small group has its own agenda and always will. A divided workforce is the ideal workforce for Cathay.
The only light at the end of the tunnel is that when the basing companies go on-shore, at least those groups will have the right and the will to put pressure on Cathay for better conditions. If this becomes unbearable for Cathay, they will move the jobs back to Hong Kong. Sure, there will be no ability for the HKG-based pilots to strike or slow down, but, the company will have to PAY for that right, with housing allowance, etc.
All the number crunchers at Swire have already figured this into their plan.
It's every man and woman for him or herself. Cathay knows this, and we should realize it.
If you know I'm rude, so be it. That's one of the benefits of a forum like this! Sometimes bluntness and a lack of political correctness is necessary. I bet you won't pluralize with an apostrophe anymore! One down, millions to go!
Whining solves nothing. This forum should be a place for constructive ideas which bring this divided pilot group together. Unfortunately, it is not, and never will be. Cathay knows that we are divided and will forever remain this way. That is why there are so many different pay scales and companies which employ us. Each small group has its own agenda and always will. A divided workforce is the ideal workforce for Cathay.
The only light at the end of the tunnel is that when the basing companies go on-shore, at least those groups will have the right and the will to put pressure on Cathay for better conditions. If this becomes unbearable for Cathay, they will move the jobs back to Hong Kong. Sure, there will be no ability for the HKG-based pilots to strike or slow down, but, the company will have to PAY for that right, with housing allowance, etc.
All the number crunchers at Swire have already figured this into their plan.
It's every man and woman for him or herself. Cathay knows this, and we should realize it.
If you know I'm rude, so be it. That's one of the benefits of a forum like this! Sometimes bluntness and a lack of political correctness is necessary. I bet you won't pluralize with an apostrophe anymore! One down, millions to go!
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Spelling and Grammar
Jose - thanks for pointing out the error. In mitigation, I had drunk a few margaritas in the preceding hours.
And for the record, I do have a university degree.
lmh
"Long haul airline flying....it's like being rich and famous without the money or the notoriety"
And for the record, I do have a university degree.
lmh
"Long haul airline flying....it's like being rich and famous without the money or the notoriety"
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Going back to ACMS's point,
you're absolutely correct - these economic principles apply to every industry at all levels - toilet cleaners to CEO.
Option A - you stay in your current position until your company realises that you really are Mr/Mrs Wonderful, or you have a reasonable gripe (currency exchange is a fact of life people!) and gives you a payrise.
Option B - you go and work for somebody else who pays more or has a more pleasing environment, coducive to your delicate nature.
Unless you live/work in a country where the union is taken more seriously like France, and most of the time the unions are demanding for something that the employer can be persuaded to agree is reasonable. Sadly, Hong Kong/Swire doesn't appear to run by those rules. Just look around at the caring-sharing society you are living in. My 2 penneth, take a reaslitic look around you.
Brgd's
N1 Vibes
you're absolutely correct - these economic principles apply to every industry at all levels - toilet cleaners to CEO.
Option A - you stay in your current position until your company realises that you really are Mr/Mrs Wonderful, or you have a reasonable gripe (currency exchange is a fact of life people!) and gives you a payrise.
Option B - you go and work for somebody else who pays more or has a more pleasing environment, coducive to your delicate nature.
Unless you live/work in a country where the union is taken more seriously like France, and most of the time the unions are demanding for something that the employer can be persuaded to agree is reasonable. Sadly, Hong Kong/Swire doesn't appear to run by those rules. Just look around at the caring-sharing society you are living in. My 2 penneth, take a reaslitic look around you.
Brgd's
N1 Vibes
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Absolutely correct N1 - we are privileged compared to the average workday slave in Hong Kong and Asia. Problem is that we don't compare ourselves to them but to our fellow aviators in the west and their standard of living/income/industrial realtions.
Guy across the road from me just bought a HK $ 14 000 000 house and first thing he did was cement over the nice green lawn out front. But he won't miss it since he works from 5 am to midnight six days a week. Sorry... thread drift.....lifestyle is relative.....
Guy across the road from me just bought a HK $ 14 000 000 house and first thing he did was cement over the nice green lawn out front. But he won't miss it since he works from 5 am to midnight six days a week. Sorry... thread drift.....lifestyle is relative.....
