SO / FO choice
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pilipines
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Some interesting, and many valid points of view re the $$$ comparing DEFO vs SO. What appears to go overlooked a lot however is the cost of living. If you planned to be based in NY and live in Manhattan, then the $ for $ comparison of packages is valid. However if your home of choice is somewhere much cheaper then it makes the comparison a little more complicated. I know I state the obvious in saying this, but you got to work out what is really going into your pocket at the end of the month.
Agreed the housing allowance is great and many people have done well. But as some have said before, it's not all that. I echo previous posts, beware of the risks.
As for the SO vs FO from a operational point of view, very unrewarding in the back seat.
Finally don't prostitute yourself. If the life you want is on a base then the answer is simple. Why would you come to HK for a little more money? If you would would like a change of scene and maybe bounce around the region on your 12+ days off a month then c'mon over. You might find it a bit tough finding a suitably sized place for a wife and kids with the initial housing. Just a heads up. Also 32k/mth or whatever it is as an SO in HK may be a bit short to support a family in my opinion. It is doable however. Especially so if your wife works.
BA
Agreed the housing allowance is great and many people have done well. But as some have said before, it's not all that. I echo previous posts, beware of the risks.
As for the SO vs FO from a operational point of view, very unrewarding in the back seat.
Finally don't prostitute yourself. If the life you want is on a base then the answer is simple. Why would you come to HK for a little more money? If you would would like a change of scene and maybe bounce around the region on your 12+ days off a month then c'mon over. You might find it a bit tough finding a suitably sized place for a wife and kids with the initial housing. Just a heads up. Also 32k/mth or whatever it is as an SO in HK may be a bit short to support a family in my opinion. It is doable however. Especially so if your wife works.
BA
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WestCoast
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this post has a lot of information. thanks guys.
not that i have a choice to go FO, but might as well ask NC: from what you see now, how long are we looking at SO upgrades to JFO/FO? Traditionally it's been 3.5 years. Seems like CX is pushing for more cadets next year (cheap labour maybe), any guesstimates on how long the SO "lifestyle" will be for someone joining early next year? I dont anticipate any changes to the 9 mths - 1 year of JFO time, please correct me if i'm wrong
cheers
not that i have a choice to go FO, but might as well ask NC: from what you see now, how long are we looking at SO upgrades to JFO/FO? Traditionally it's been 3.5 years. Seems like CX is pushing for more cadets next year (cheap labour maybe), any guesstimates on how long the SO "lifestyle" will be for someone joining early next year? I dont anticipate any changes to the 9 mths - 1 year of JFO time, please correct me if i'm wrong
cheers
Join Date: Oct 2006
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newEssO
This is real crystal ball stuff, but here goes.
3man ULR
DEFO
RA65
Bypass pay
3man ULR increase to 14 hours will mean we can do our EUR flights with reduced crew. We will still need to use 4 crew on all US flights. We have over 1000 FOs - so if we suddenly didn't need to use 4 pilots that means we have a 'surplus' of 200-400FOs - sorry about the guesstimate but I haven't bothered to break it down into fleets. Bottom line, 3man will have a huge impact!
DEFOs joining after you are junior to you, but take up a senior position to you. There is not that great 'sausage machine' effect driving your forward to upgrade. Given the parsimonius pay structure here the only way CX will have to attract people is offer them based DEFO positions so they will be recruiting DEFOs for a while to come!
RA65 will affect all of us. There are around 60 retirements due per year for the next 5-10 years. So over the current 3.5years as an SO that means there would be 210 less CNs and FO positions required.
Bypass pay for SOs is NOT paid until you are assessed. All those DEFOs joining would therefore not lead you to getting bypass pay until you are 2-4months from upgrade. And of course, joining next year you are not entitled to bypass pay for the 200 odd CNs that would have extended over the next 3.5 years.
To put all these numbers into perspective there are around 329 SOs and 1050 FOs and 780CNs. So on the numbers your career progression looks terrible. CX don't like to have institutionalized SOs so they would tell you that you will be upgraded in 3 years. A non-CX mate of mine was told he would get his command in 9 years - for that to be true we will need to have 350a/c at the end of 2015.
clear as mud?
3man ULR
DEFO
RA65
Bypass pay
3man ULR increase to 14 hours will mean we can do our EUR flights with reduced crew. We will still need to use 4 crew on all US flights. We have over 1000 FOs - so if we suddenly didn't need to use 4 pilots that means we have a 'surplus' of 200-400FOs - sorry about the guesstimate but I haven't bothered to break it down into fleets. Bottom line, 3man will have a huge impact!
DEFOs joining after you are junior to you, but take up a senior position to you. There is not that great 'sausage machine' effect driving your forward to upgrade. Given the parsimonius pay structure here the only way CX will have to attract people is offer them based DEFO positions so they will be recruiting DEFOs for a while to come!
RA65 will affect all of us. There are around 60 retirements due per year for the next 5-10 years. So over the current 3.5years as an SO that means there would be 210 less CNs and FO positions required.
Bypass pay for SOs is NOT paid until you are assessed. All those DEFOs joining would therefore not lead you to getting bypass pay until you are 2-4months from upgrade. And of course, joining next year you are not entitled to bypass pay for the 200 odd CNs that would have extended over the next 3.5 years.
To put all these numbers into perspective there are around 329 SOs and 1050 FOs and 780CNs. So on the numbers your career progression looks terrible. CX don't like to have institutionalized SOs so they would tell you that you will be upgraded in 3 years. A non-CX mate of mine was told he would get his command in 9 years - for that to be true we will need to have 350a/c at the end of 2015.
clear as mud?
