.... Watch out KA, incoming!!!
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.... Watch out KA, incoming!!!
Announcement of senior management changes by KA CEO The following
announcement was made by KA CEO Kenny Tang today:
This is to inform colleagues of senior management changes.
Captain Richard Hall, General Manager Flying at Cathay Pacific Airways, has been
appointed General Manager Operations, Dragonair.
He will replace Captain Tim Watts, who will resume flying duties with Dragonair,
and take up a Base in the United Kingdom early in 2008. He will officially stand
down from his current post on December 31, 2007.
In the meantime, Captain Hall will transfer to Dragonair as General Manager
Operations - Designate with immediate effect.
In a further appointment, Mr Dennis Leung, Scheduling Manager Integrated Crew
Management (ICM) at Cathay Pacific, has been appointed to a new post of Manager
ICM at Dragonair, and will be responsible for Crew Planning, Crew Rostering and
Crew Control with a direct reporting line to Captain Hall.
This follows the recent appointment of Captain Geoff Marinko, Flying Training
Manager Airbus at Cathay Pacific, who became the Chief Pilot Airbus at Dragonair
from October 1.
The changes are part of an ongoing process of integration and strengthening of the
airline’s Flight Operation Management since Dragonair became part of the Cathay
Pacific Group last year.
The first two phases of this integration involved areas such as Operations Control,
Dispatch and Performance Engineering.
This latest phase addresses Crew Rostering and will assist us in addressing the
concerns of our cockpit crew over rostering practices, which we accept is a top
priority.
Captain Hall was for seven years Flight Manager or Chief Pilot Airbus at Cathay
Pacific and for 18 months Chief Pilot of the airline’s Boeing 747-400 fleet.
This experience on both types of aircraft operated by Dragonair makes him an ideal
appointment.
Mr Leung has been involved in crew scheduling management at Cathay Pacific for 20
years and his experience will be invaluable in tackling crew scheduling-related issues
at Dragonair.
Finally, I would like to pay tribute to Captain Watts, who has been General Manager
Operations for 10 years.
Captain Watts has seen Dragonair through a long period of growth and change and the
company is most grateful for his valuable contribution.
Overall, the changes will help the airline achieve its long term goals of growth on its
Mainland and regional routes and I look forward to working with all of our colleagues
in moving Dragonair forward.
Kenny Tang, Chief Executive Officer
announcement was made by KA CEO Kenny Tang today:
This is to inform colleagues of senior management changes.
Captain Richard Hall, General Manager Flying at Cathay Pacific Airways, has been
appointed General Manager Operations, Dragonair.
He will replace Captain Tim Watts, who will resume flying duties with Dragonair,
and take up a Base in the United Kingdom early in 2008. He will officially stand
down from his current post on December 31, 2007.
In the meantime, Captain Hall will transfer to Dragonair as General Manager
Operations - Designate with immediate effect.
In a further appointment, Mr Dennis Leung, Scheduling Manager Integrated Crew
Management (ICM) at Cathay Pacific, has been appointed to a new post of Manager
ICM at Dragonair, and will be responsible for Crew Planning, Crew Rostering and
Crew Control with a direct reporting line to Captain Hall.
This follows the recent appointment of Captain Geoff Marinko, Flying Training
Manager Airbus at Cathay Pacific, who became the Chief Pilot Airbus at Dragonair
from October 1.
The changes are part of an ongoing process of integration and strengthening of the
airline’s Flight Operation Management since Dragonair became part of the Cathay
Pacific Group last year.
The first two phases of this integration involved areas such as Operations Control,
Dispatch and Performance Engineering.
This latest phase addresses Crew Rostering and will assist us in addressing the
concerns of our cockpit crew over rostering practices, which we accept is a top
priority.
Captain Hall was for seven years Flight Manager or Chief Pilot Airbus at Cathay
Pacific and for 18 months Chief Pilot of the airline’s Boeing 747-400 fleet.
This experience on both types of aircraft operated by Dragonair makes him an ideal
appointment.
Mr Leung has been involved in crew scheduling management at Cathay Pacific for 20
years and his experience will be invaluable in tackling crew scheduling-related issues
at Dragonair.
Finally, I would like to pay tribute to Captain Watts, who has been General Manager
Operations for 10 years.
Captain Watts has seen Dragonair through a long period of growth and change and the
company is most grateful for his valuable contribution.
Overall, the changes will help the airline achieve its long term goals of growth on its
Mainland and regional routes and I look forward to working with all of our colleagues
in moving Dragonair forward.
Kenny Tang, Chief Executive Officer
Last edited by CXpletive; 31st Oct 2007 at 09:00.
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What I cannot understand is ...if Richard H is going to put out fires at KA, who is going to put out the fires at CX next year when the pilots start going to VS etc.... Please do not tell me that Phil is going to screw us by himself!
:
I hope Richard comes with a big cheque book and a rostering practice manual...I think he might need one.
Nice to see a Management pilot get shafted very diplomatically by his piers!!!
:I hope Richard comes with a big cheque book and a rostering practice manual...I think he might need one.
Nice to see a Management pilot get shafted very diplomatically by his piers!!!
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Geez, Mr Leung will have his work cut out for him! With the last 36 resignations, they employed one guy from hong kong airlines or express! With all the best intentions in the world to fix rostering/crewing, they are not going to be able to do jack until they have a package that attracts applicants. Pure and simple.
They can upgrade our VIC 20 rostering computer to a commodore 64 borrowed from cathay, they still wont be able to produce a legal roster. I wonder if they honestly have any idea how many guys are leaving in the next 2 months?
Guess whats next? Too many captains resigned, cant release FOs from the line for command training "due crew shortage", smells like direct entry captains to me!
They can upgrade our VIC 20 rostering computer to a commodore 64 borrowed from cathay, they still wont be able to produce a legal roster. I wonder if they honestly have any idea how many guys are leaving in the next 2 months?
Guess whats next? Too many captains resigned, cant release FOs from the line for command training "due crew shortage", smells like direct entry captains to me!
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The Time is Right
Well it seems that CX have once again taken to firing people to resolve its problems. This massive sideways shift of the GMO stops only just short of throwing him out on the street. And proabably rightly so. If he had been terminated he would have been paid out his contract (millions) and probably hit them for wrongful dismissal as well. It is a shame that the Personell Manager was also not given a sideways push, as she is just as resposible, if not more so, for the current state of affairs.
The last thing CX needs is another 49'ers debacle, with law suits being thrown around willy nilly. Nor do they need any other skeletons coming out of the closet, as in the Crofts case. We are not unreasonable people here at KA but will fight tooth and nail for what is right and just, as has been demonstrated by the guys. So it is very pleasing to see that they are sending over some capable people to get things right at KA.
But please don't stop there CX. Go all the way and match the KA salaries to CX salaries, and have a full seniority list integration and a single operating standard. That way there will a single recruitment line and less problem recruiting guys. All pilots can then be assigned to any route which will increase your pilot and rostering efficiencies. It will also stop the leakage as guys resign due to the fact that we are sick and tired of just doing the dirty work flying into China for less money.
It also sorts out your DEFO problem where experienced guys can go direct to the RHS. It addresses your training problem where trainees can get in lots of sectors quickly. That will increase your through put of commanders. And remember that we already have RA 60, which will then be easier to implement system wide which will assist in keeping experienced guys. Both companies need to expand and can benefit each other.
All this will probably happen in the fullness of time in any event, but if you want it to happen quickly and relatively painlessly, then that will only happen if there is a level playing field.
Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
The last thing CX needs is another 49'ers debacle, with law suits being thrown around willy nilly. Nor do they need any other skeletons coming out of the closet, as in the Crofts case. We are not unreasonable people here at KA but will fight tooth and nail for what is right and just, as has been demonstrated by the guys. So it is very pleasing to see that they are sending over some capable people to get things right at KA.
But please don't stop there CX. Go all the way and match the KA salaries to CX salaries, and have a full seniority list integration and a single operating standard. That way there will a single recruitment line and less problem recruiting guys. All pilots can then be assigned to any route which will increase your pilot and rostering efficiencies. It will also stop the leakage as guys resign due to the fact that we are sick and tired of just doing the dirty work flying into China for less money.
It also sorts out your DEFO problem where experienced guys can go direct to the RHS. It addresses your training problem where trainees can get in lots of sectors quickly. That will increase your through put of commanders. And remember that we already have RA 60, which will then be easier to implement system wide which will assist in keeping experienced guys. Both companies need to expand and can benefit each other.
All this will probably happen in the fullness of time in any event, but if you want it to happen quickly and relatively painlessly, then that will only happen if there is a level playing field.
Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
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Just as a matter of interest, does any KA employee have statistics on the pilot demographics - Country of origin, years of service etc?
Just as a starter, how many years with KA does your most senior pilot have?
Same question for the most senior and junior captain on any fleet - 320/330/744?
Just trying to figure out where we will be after the integration/merger that is undoubtedly going to happen.
Just as a starter, how many years with KA does your most senior pilot have?
Same question for the most senior and junior captain on any fleet - 320/330/744?
Just trying to figure out where we will be after the integration/merger that is undoubtedly going to happen.
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With respect for KA guys, I think the use of the word takeover rather than merger more accurately reflects the prospects of integration.
I chose to join a longhaul airline and I would be most upset to see KA pilots move onto the list above me. I am sure I am not alone.
No offence but see you at the bottom of the list.
I chose to join a longhaul airline and I would be most upset to see KA pilots move onto the list above me. I am sure I am not alone.
No offence but see you at the bottom of the list.
One thing is for sure, if there is any merger there won't be one dollar available for re-training. Work it out!
But a merger is unlikely - only 2 HK airlines have the right to fly to places such as Shanghai and Beijing. If the two become one, the HK Airlines or Express will start to fly to those destinations and that is something that CX will not allow to happen.
RH is being sent to KA to put out the fires after the situation has got so poor after TW's management. Implementing the 3% that CX got will lead to the flood of resignations becoming a deluge. A lot have left (34 resignations in 6 months according to the SCMP artice this morning which is more that I thought and must mean that KA are close to 10% attrition on the year) and a lot more a re waiting in the wings - watching to see what happens. And don't forget the CNY bonus and UK on-shore factors. Another surge imminent IMHO.
CX just cannot afford to let this situation worsen.
But a merger is unlikely - only 2 HK airlines have the right to fly to places such as Shanghai and Beijing. If the two become one, the HK Airlines or Express will start to fly to those destinations and that is something that CX will not allow to happen.
RH is being sent to KA to put out the fires after the situation has got so poor after TW's management. Implementing the 3% that CX got will lead to the flood of resignations becoming a deluge. A lot have left (34 resignations in 6 months according to the SCMP artice this morning which is more that I thought and must mean that KA are close to 10% attrition on the year) and a lot more a re waiting in the wings - watching to see what happens. And don't forget the CNY bonus and UK on-shore factors. Another surge imminent IMHO.
CX just cannot afford to let this situation worsen.
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With respect for KA guys, I think the use of the word takeover rather than merger more accurately reflects the prospects of integration.
KA is bleeding and there isn't a transfusion of pilots on the market that will fix this anytime soon. Back on board will be launched within weeks- a torniquet of sorts- but the real deal will be money and rostering.
You yourself may be sent down to KA to help things out !
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Ftl Changes
And CX can stick the sleasy attempt to change the FTL tables to allow 3 man ULR operations right up where it doesn't shine.
Shame on the CAD if they bow to CX commercial desires, and crew mis management issues (to few crew) to increase the duty periods with no scientific data that demonstrates it is a safe thing to make pilots work longer hours with reduced manning levels and with less experienced crew, sitting in the RHS.
Looks like a lot of bad press on the way again for CX Mismanagement.
Shame on the CAD if they bow to CX commercial desires, and crew mis management issues (to few crew) to increase the duty periods with no scientific data that demonstrates it is a safe thing to make pilots work longer hours with reduced manning levels and with less experienced crew, sitting in the RHS.
Looks like a lot of bad press on the way again for CX Mismanagement.
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True Dan, you are spot on, but remember these cx guys seem to be oblivious to the notion of voting with our feet, a product of them becoming managers in an era of pilots being a dime a dozen. An example of cx being totally out of touch with the new economic conditions they are now dealing with is their copying of the "hong kong report" with their freighter fleet, it was almost a blue print of Watt's disasterous project.
It will just be more of the same "If you dont like it, you can leave style of management". We would be naieve to expect anything else. Kennys number one priority isnt rostering issues as he states, its making sure the aircraft arent pushed up against the fence. Period.
Why do I feel like someone just rolled a Trojan Horse into the KA basement?
There wont be any pilot body merger. as has been stated before, cx hasnt even got the same T&cs within its own ranks, they are the masters of different contracts for all! There may be some cross crewing and the same paint jobs one day, but thats about it. So what if we go to the bottom of CX list? They wont down train everyone to SOs, at the rate things are going, everyone who was in the company at the time of the buyout will have a command anyway, so we will all go across as captains. The guys who joined after the buyout date will slot in where they fit. Simple.
As for Demographics, 80% gweilos, some guys still here from the day the company started, and one guy joined a fortnight ago, and everyone else somewhere in between. A mix of A scalers and B scalers, and local contracts. Sound familiar?
It will just be more of the same "If you dont like it, you can leave style of management". We would be naieve to expect anything else. Kennys number one priority isnt rostering issues as he states, its making sure the aircraft arent pushed up against the fence. Period.
Why do I feel like someone just rolled a Trojan Horse into the KA basement?
There wont be any pilot body merger. as has been stated before, cx hasnt even got the same T&cs within its own ranks, they are the masters of different contracts for all! There may be some cross crewing and the same paint jobs one day, but thats about it. So what if we go to the bottom of CX list? They wont down train everyone to SOs, at the rate things are going, everyone who was in the company at the time of the buyout will have a command anyway, so we will all go across as captains. The guys who joined after the buyout date will slot in where they fit. Simple.
As for Demographics, 80% gweilos, some guys still here from the day the company started, and one guy joined a fortnight ago, and everyone else somewhere in between. A mix of A scalers and B scalers, and local contracts. Sound familiar?
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Questions
1. Does this mean CX will have to make a new Aircraft Safety Equip Video? Or just edit RH out??
2. Will an FO be paid "by-pass" in KA because of a Direct Entry Capt or 2 arriving from CX?
3. I assume RH is coming across on a "CX package" plus a bit for... err... motivation. Will the other KA managers get p!ssy that they are on the lesser KA "package?
4. Will everyone in CX move up one place on the Totem Pole or is someone going to parachute into the GMF office?
2. Will an FO be paid "by-pass" in KA because of a Direct Entry Capt or 2 arriving from CX?
3. I assume RH is coming across on a "CX package" plus a bit for... err... motivation. Will the other KA managers get p!ssy that they are on the lesser KA "package?
4. Will everyone in CX move up one place on the Totem Pole or is someone going to parachute into the GMF office?
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Not wishing to feed the paranoia here too much, but I just wondered if you guys are aware that when you opened this thread a cookie was set in your browser by "iconnect.cathaypacific.com". Being a humble SLF I'm not sure of the significance of that, but I generally get a bit uncomfortable with hidden embedded links which set cookies.
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This is serious panic mode guys...normally the anouncement would be" RH is going to KA and XYZ is going to replace RH at Cx". I have a feeling that this move was such a desperate move, that they did not have a quick replacement for RH...lets see
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I agree with DrunkenAir, there are many partial solutions to Cx's crewing problems that can be satisfied by utilising the pilot resource at KA...problem is, that resource is rapidly dwindling. Why? Pay is a start, but its far from the only problem. Statements like the recent declaration from TT, that there will be.. 'no integration between KA/CX and there will be no expansion beyond the current regional network', is a major one. This statement alone probably precipitated the recent exodus and many who were planning to stay have had a re-think and are now in the motions of jumping. Talk about being 'out of touch' with your key personnel - what kind of management style possesses you tell your people that they're in a crappy dead end job with no prospects!!
Management don't seem to realise the highly transportable nature of our skills in a rapidly expanding market. Underpaid, underappreciated aircrew with no prospects for improvement are not going to stay. The KA pilot body is a far more critical group than that of CX. many CX pilots joined with the belief that they are strapping-in for a long term career and invested many years waiting for promotions etc, and thus will stay regardless. The same does not apply at KA as seen by the 8+% resignation rate over the last 6 mths. A token payrise alone will not retain or attract quality pilots at KA, a genuine promise of career progression and opportunity is also needed...even the loyal HK cadets are leaving for greener pastures!
If the new management team don't address this properly, KA will continue to lose market share to the other HK and China operators. Any new-hires with any sense will simply take the free endorsement and head home again.
Thanks KA...its been real.
Management don't seem to realise the highly transportable nature of our skills in a rapidly expanding market. Underpaid, underappreciated aircrew with no prospects for improvement are not going to stay. The KA pilot body is a far more critical group than that of CX. many CX pilots joined with the belief that they are strapping-in for a long term career and invested many years waiting for promotions etc, and thus will stay regardless. The same does not apply at KA as seen by the 8+% resignation rate over the last 6 mths. A token payrise alone will not retain or attract quality pilots at KA, a genuine promise of career progression and opportunity is also needed...even the loyal HK cadets are leaving for greener pastures!
If the new management team don't address this properly, KA will continue to lose market share to the other HK and China operators. Any new-hires with any sense will simply take the free endorsement and head home again.
Thanks KA...its been real.
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True, Tylers letter certainly sealed the deal for alot of guys deciding if they would update the log books, and resumes. But then what would you expect from someone who has spent the last 5 years blocking KA expansion plans at board level? KA is the illigitimate child he now has to take under his wing and be seen to publicly support.
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Both the GMO and KA are very aware of Hong Kong employment law. KA are entitltled to sack him as long as they pay his notice period as stated in his contract. For the ordinary pilots that is 3 months notice and you're gone. There is no possibility OF 'hitting them for wrongful dismissal' as long as KA follow the contracted notice period. I don't know if the GMO has different terms to pilots.
