New Joiners - Unified First Officer Pay Scale
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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B scaler, well said.
IluvPX,
the company can't force you onto inferior scales. So in your case (USA) you would remain on your USAB99 scales and only the New Joiners would enjoy the lower salary scales. A bit like now with B scales - two people doing the same job but for different pay.
IluvPX,
the company can't force you onto inferior scales. So in your case (USA) you would remain on your USAB99 scales and only the New Joiners would enjoy the lower salary scales. A bit like now with B scales - two people doing the same job but for different pay.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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CoS 08
Mr Bloggs
Perhaps I could paraphrase you by expressing some of your sentiments a different way. There is a saying that 'In order for evil to conquer, it is simply necessary that good men do nothing'.
You are right, junior guys will avoid putting their heads above the parapet for fear that it will get shot off at some point as their career progresses. It is incumbent upon the more senior of us to stand up for them. This is just such a clear case of injustice that it cannot help but be opposed.
Some clear leadership from the AOA and resolute backing from senior aircrew in determining clear opposition to CoS 08 is what is required. Junior aircrew would, undoubtedly, gratefully follow.
Be clear that what is being asked of the Company here is not the American-style see-saw of industrial relations where the aircrew get every cent they can screw out of the Company in good times, so the Company responds by slaughtering the aircrew in bad times! All that is being asked for is a fair deal here. No fisticuffs, drawn swords or pistols at dawn.
If the Company does actually follow through with putting the screws down on aircrew by the unilateral imposition of CoS 08, then I fear they will set the American-style see-saw in motion... I don't think they really want that. I think it is in everyone's interests to come to a fairer deal.
Perhaps I could paraphrase you by expressing some of your sentiments a different way. There is a saying that 'In order for evil to conquer, it is simply necessary that good men do nothing'.
You are right, junior guys will avoid putting their heads above the parapet for fear that it will get shot off at some point as their career progresses. It is incumbent upon the more senior of us to stand up for them. This is just such a clear case of injustice that it cannot help but be opposed.
Some clear leadership from the AOA and resolute backing from senior aircrew in determining clear opposition to CoS 08 is what is required. Junior aircrew would, undoubtedly, gratefully follow.
Be clear that what is being asked of the Company here is not the American-style see-saw of industrial relations where the aircrew get every cent they can screw out of the Company in good times, so the Company responds by slaughtering the aircrew in bad times! All that is being asked for is a fair deal here. No fisticuffs, drawn swords or pistols at dawn.
If the Company does actually follow through with putting the screws down on aircrew by the unilateral imposition of CoS 08, then I fear they will set the American-style see-saw in motion... I don't think they really want that. I think it is in everyone's interests to come to a fairer deal.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Right Here.
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As a result of the Unified salary scale, future FOs will not be classified as Freighter or Passenger FOs. They will simply be FOs able to operate any aircraft for which they are qualified.
I was under the impression a large percentage of pax pilots COS99 dont fly freight under their contract.
Confused...
MAX
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Aus DEFO pay
$92,664
$94,512
$96,396
$117,564
$139,536
$142,320
$145,176
$148,080
$151,032
$154,056
Add 15.5% for PF(Superannuation) and 4-7% for HDP(hourly duty pay). They pay for health cover and medicare levy - not sure what will happen after onshoring though!
$94,512
$96,396
$117,564
$139,536
$142,320
$145,176
$148,080
$151,032
$154,056
Add 15.5% for PF(Superannuation) and 4-7% for HDP(hourly duty pay). They pay for health cover and medicare levy - not sure what will happen after onshoring though!
Join Date: Oct 2006
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t jet
Take year 10 salary, mutilply it by (1+CPI)^n then divide it by (1+CPI)^n, where n is the years after 10th year as FO. That will give you the salary for every year after year 10;-)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Canada
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Why can't you get it?
Good morning everyone,
It's not rocket science, yet many of you cannot grasp the obvious. Why is that?
If someone accepts the new lower payscales, that is the new baseline for pay! A scales were undermined by people accepting B scales. B scales were undermined by freighter pilots taking ASL scales. The new DEFO scales undermine the whole lot even further.
Everyone likes to blame everyone else, but you have only yourselves to blame. No, it is not the senior pilots fault that B scale pilots accepted the lower pay scale. Using this same juvenile logic, one could say that our B scale members should be doing something to prevent the new DEFO scales.
Again, the reality is that nothing will change until people start to resign in droves and no one accepts a new position. Judging by the number of new joiners in the Headland, that is not going to happen any time soon.
If the options for you are so good out there, why are you still here?
Enough said!!!!
It's not rocket science, yet many of you cannot grasp the obvious. Why is that?
If someone accepts the new lower payscales, that is the new baseline for pay! A scales were undermined by people accepting B scales. B scales were undermined by freighter pilots taking ASL scales. The new DEFO scales undermine the whole lot even further.
Everyone likes to blame everyone else, but you have only yourselves to blame. No, it is not the senior pilots fault that B scale pilots accepted the lower pay scale. Using this same juvenile logic, one could say that our B scale members should be doing something to prevent the new DEFO scales.
Again, the reality is that nothing will change until people start to resign in droves and no one accepts a new position. Judging by the number of new joiners in the Headland, that is not going to happen any time soon.
If the options for you are so good out there, why are you still here?
Enough said!!!!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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Everyone likes to blame everyone else, but you have only yourselves to blame. No, it is not the senior pilots fault that B scale pilots accepted the lower pay scale. Using this same juvenile logic, one could say that our B scale members should be doing something to prevent the new DEFO scales.
As an example, and to illustrate what I mean, a year after the imposition of B-Scales for all New Joiners, COSAP 94 was imposed upon A-Scalers which included amongst other things, a reduction in annual leave from 8 weeks to 6 weeks. It is axiomatic to assume that the Company would do something similar in this current situation if an unopposed imposition of CoS 08 were to occur. Learn from history. Read the tea leaves.
I am a B-Scale member and I am doing something to try to prevent CoS 08 being unilaterally imposed in its present form which is patently unfair to junior officers and New Joiners. I believe we all should. I also believe that the AOA should take the lead in adequately representing the majority of the membership by publicly opposing CoS 08 as it stands.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WestCoast
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is it even an option for the COS08 to fall through? This is terrible new.
After reading through these threads, I am starting to get sick to my stomach because it seems like the biggest impact COS08 will have are on new joiners like us.
I am trying to get based back home asap, and either it's the byproduct of COS08, or a direct intention? who knows. But the fact of the matter is that, it seems like it is discouraging foreign basing. What's the deal?
NEO
After reading through these threads, I am starting to get sick to my stomach because it seems like the biggest impact COS08 will have are on new joiners like us.
I am trying to get based back home asap, and either it's the byproduct of COS08, or a direct intention? who knows. But the fact of the matter is that, it seems like it is discouraging foreign basing. What's the deal?
NEO
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Crunchero -
Thanks, light has dawned after a couple of nights sleep back in my own bed ! Now I see why its not such a good deal.
Here's another thought: With the availability of new joiners to be assigned to bases, will this slow down the movement of COS '99 FO's moving across from freighter to pax after their 3 years freighter commitment ? Would certainly save the company some $$$.
Here's another thought: With the availability of new joiners to be assigned to bases, will this slow down the movement of COS '99 FO's moving across from freighter to pax after their 3 years freighter commitment ? Would certainly save the company some $$$.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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t jet
Absolutely! If all the pax FO base vacancies are filled by DEFOs, then there will be no slots available for freighter FOs to bid across to pax bases. So if they want to receive pax pay they will have to move to HKG. The DEFOs(UFO) are locked in the base for 4 years. The only vacancies will come from expansion and FOs leaving, presumably for upgrade. Given that CN bases are likely to fill up, and remain full for 10 years now(or longer if we get RA70;-), many senior FOs may choose to stay on a base rather than take a HKG command. This is starting to happen more and more frequently now!
So CoS08 is likely to be a very bad deal for current FFOs!
So CoS08 is likely to be a very bad deal for current FFOs!
