New Joiners - Unified First Officer Pay Scale
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Poy,
at UPS, if hired today. Third year pay will be $124/hr x 75hour/month x 13 months..that's right, the months are only 28 days making it 13 months for a calendar year.
So that's:$120,900 basic gauranteed money for the year. Keep in mind though that most of our lines are built with the average of about 82-85 hours pay.
There's also another $4.50/hr for "international override". ($4400-ish/yr)
Perdiem is 3.25/hr. (roughly $12,000/yr)
And 12% fully vested retirement.
When the contract reaches its final year in 2012, the 2nd yr F/Os will be earning $155/hour.
Best part: NO STAR CHAMBERS
at UPS, if hired today. Third year pay will be $124/hr x 75hour/month x 13 months..that's right, the months are only 28 days making it 13 months for a calendar year.
So that's:$120,900 basic gauranteed money for the year. Keep in mind though that most of our lines are built with the average of about 82-85 hours pay.
There's also another $4.50/hr for "international override". ($4400-ish/yr)
Perdiem is 3.25/hr. (roughly $12,000/yr)
And 12% fully vested retirement.
When the contract reaches its final year in 2012, the 2nd yr F/Os will be earning $155/hour.
Best part: NO STAR CHAMBERS
Last edited by XCX-SOHAPPY; 22nd Oct 2007 at 18:03.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Europe
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UFO vs UPS
Why on earth does anyone stick around for CX?
The new USA CX FO scale:
Y1 73,440
Y2 74,904
Y3 76,404
Y4 93,192
Y5 110,604
Y6 112,824
Y7 115,068
Y8 117,372
Y9 119,724
Y10 122,124
+ Duty Pay ~8,000 per year
+15% Retirement pay
CX are not really in the ball park.
Please tell me what I have missed?
Milly
The new USA CX FO scale:
Y1 73,440
Y2 74,904
Y3 76,404
Y4 93,192
Y5 110,604
Y6 112,824
Y7 115,068
Y8 117,372
Y9 119,724
Y10 122,124
+ Duty Pay ~8,000 per year
+15% Retirement pay
CX are not really in the ball park.
Please tell me what I have missed?
Milly
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Never mind FOs
.........from what I can see a CX Freighter Captain will earn less than a UPS FO:
Y1 CX Captain: 127, 716
Y3 UPS FO: 135,408 guaranteed
Somebody help - surely I have made a mistake
Milly
Y1 CX Captain: 127, 716
Y3 UPS FO: 135,408 guaranteed
Somebody help - surely I have made a mistake
Milly
Join Date: Jul 2007
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No mistake. The numbers are accurate. Just shows how badly CX management have miscalculated thier 'generous' offer. This also does not take into account other large considerations for American pilots, ie: a) Retirement healthcare. This alone will push many US CX pilots into poverty once they retire. b) loss of Medicare benefits (not enough qualifying months, as CX don't pay into the scheme. c) loss of Social Security (again, CX don't pay into the scheme).
CX is like a drug, it at first gives you a bit of a rush, then after time you find it very unsatisfying, but you are trapped by years and inertia. Don't allow yourselves to be trapped into a very demoralising career. If you are a US citizen, 37 or under, leave now and join any US major.
CX is like a drug, it at first gives you a bit of a rush, then after time you find it very unsatisfying, but you are trapped by years and inertia. Don't allow yourselves to be trapped into a very demoralising career. If you are a US citizen, 37 or under, leave now and join any US major.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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xcx-sohappy Q
Hey XCX-sohappy...
Good comp on the ups/unified pay scale...whats the vacation like?...do you get to drop trips if vac time touches a trip?...plus what are the lines like in ANC and MIA days on and off etc especially on rsv.....
Cheers
Teedub
Good comp on the ups/unified pay scale...whats the vacation like?...do you get to drop trips if vac time touches a trip?...plus what are the lines like in ANC and MIA days on and off etc especially on rsv.....
Cheers
Teedub
Join Date: Jan 2005
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On the US Unified scale it is a raise for the freighter flying. Compared to COS 99 year 4+ after changing to pax fleet it is a $20,000 year paycut.
Health insurance for a 60 year old and spouse is around $1300. a month so big issue for retirees as no national healthplan in US until you turn 65
Health insurance for a 60 year old and spouse is around $1300. a month so big issue for retirees as no national healthplan in US until you turn 65
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I cant blame American folks for looking at other pastures. Being a European at CX certainly has its downsides too, partly due to the obvious lacks in its check and training philosophy as opposed to its counterparts in Europe and N. America. Being an N. American jockey at CX must be even harder knowing the relaxed athosmophere you guys have got in aeroplane operation and thats ment in a positive way. I would go now if I was you. Enjoy.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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here we are;
FL 360 wst bound LNAV is on, check each separate sys. ck MEA, ck fuel, ck time to nrst airport [in case of failure].
what else we need to do in the next 10-15 mins????
can we say a word about football or where to find good Higgis????
any suggestions???
FL 360 wst bound LNAV is on, check each separate sys. ck MEA, ck fuel, ck time to nrst airport [in case of failure].
what else we need to do in the next 10-15 mins????
can we say a word about football or where to find good Higgis????
any suggestions???
Join Date: Jul 2002
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VB Pay Scales
As of July 2008
B737 Capt $174,183
+ 9% super
+ App $10000 tax free allowances
EMB Capt $139,346
+ 9% super
+ App $10000 tax free allowances
B737 FO Level 3 $109,921
+ 9% Super
+ App $10000 tax free allowances
EMB FO level 3 $87,937
+ 9% super
+ App $10000 tax free allowances
All above + overtime @ B737 Capt App. $200 per hour etc.
Approximately 5 years to a command at present expansion and you get to live in Australia!
As of July 2008
B737 Capt $174,183
+ 9% super
+ App $10000 tax free allowances
EMB Capt $139,346
+ 9% super
+ App $10000 tax free allowances
B737 FO Level 3 $109,921
+ 9% Super
+ App $10000 tax free allowances
EMB FO level 3 $87,937
+ 9% super
+ App $10000 tax free allowances
All above + overtime @ B737 Capt App. $200 per hour etc.
Approximately 5 years to a command at present expansion and you get to live in Australia!
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Teedub, (don't u mean AA? HAHA).
Yes, if vacation touches your trip, it is dropped, if a training event touches your trip, it is dropped (we get to bid for training dates). If you have a "carry over" trip that extends into the next month and you "bid to conflict"...one of them will be dropped..it is all pay-gauranteed. Went into the sim for landing recurrency a few months ago and my sim partner had an entire 15-day European tour completely dropped for it. I am glad the company is making money.
If you want to check out the lines on PDF files, send me a PM.
Yes, if vacation touches your trip, it is dropped, if a training event touches your trip, it is dropped (we get to bid for training dates). If you have a "carry over" trip that extends into the next month and you "bid to conflict"...one of them will be dropped..it is all pay-gauranteed. Went into the sim for landing recurrency a few months ago and my sim partner had an entire 15-day European tour completely dropped for it. I am glad the company is making money.
If you want to check out the lines on PDF files, send me a PM.
Last edited by XCX-SOHAPPY; 22nd Oct 2007 at 18:06.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Options for USAB freighter DEFO ?
Looks like I'll be in one of the last classes to join on the old freighter scale - class is Dec 07. Just wondering if I might do better by joining on COS 08 - possible delay switching to pax after 3 yrs with all the new UFO available for pax flying, more $$$ early on etc. What do you guys think ?
Join Date: Sep 2006
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COS '08 and the UFO Scale
This is a tough call. You can definitely make more as an FO on the old USAB Freighter/PAX scale than the new UFO scale - assuming you are an FO for 10 or more years. But if you want an early freighter command (in 2-4 years), the money up front on the UFO scale is better. Keep in mind that COS '08 keeps you on a base for 4 years before you can take HKG.
It is tought to know what you will want until you have seen it - training, line flying, HKG, etc. I just wish the company would offer the UFO scale to all FO's so that new joiners making more than senior freighter FO's does not foster resentment. But, I seriously doubt they care. The company seems oblivious to human factors most of the time.
What am I missing guys? Are there other aspects of COS '08 that need to be considered?
It is tought to know what you will want until you have seen it - training, line flying, HKG, etc. I just wish the company would offer the UFO scale to all FO's so that new joiners making more than senior freighter FO's does not foster resentment. But, I seriously doubt they care. The company seems oblivious to human factors most of the time.
What am I missing guys? Are there other aspects of COS '08 that need to be considered?
Join Date: Sep 2006
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CoS 08
ScratchF15,
Here is another perspective you and others may wish to consider. And by 'you and others', I mean those looking for a job at CX at the moment, as well as those currently employed by CX, when considering what is facing the CoS 08 New Joiner in Jan 08.
Right Pay for Right Job
The Company want to change hiring practises and begin to hire pilots directly onto the pax fleet. But instead of paying these guys what is currently paid to pax fleet guys, they want to pay them an amalgamation of freighter and S/O pay, (the Unified Pay Scales in CoS 08). This is clearly not right.
If the Company wants S/Os, pay them S/O salary.
If the Company wants DEFO freighter guys, pay them freighter pay.
But if the Company wants DEFO pax guys, then pay them pax pay.
Right Pay for Right Job.
Some in the AOA, (Air Officers Association to those of you unfamiliar with the term our union goes by...), have actually been arguing that this amalgamation of pay scales is a fair way of looking at things bearing in mind the 'traditional entry streams' of the last few years bringing guys in as freighter F/Os, and S/Os. In their train of thought, they believe that it is a good thing all-round that New Joiners are being availed the opportunity to fly pax aircraft on joining.
Carrying this train of thought along just a little further, they would then be happy if New Joiners were given direct entry Capt slots whilst being paid freighter F/O salaries, because surely they would be happier being a Captain...?!
Those with this train of thought have been duped. I hope that clearer minds within the AOA will prevail and see the clear injustice taking place here.
Here is another perspective you and others may wish to consider. And by 'you and others', I mean those looking for a job at CX at the moment, as well as those currently employed by CX, when considering what is facing the CoS 08 New Joiner in Jan 08.
Right Pay for Right Job
The Company want to change hiring practises and begin to hire pilots directly onto the pax fleet. But instead of paying these guys what is currently paid to pax fleet guys, they want to pay them an amalgamation of freighter and S/O pay, (the Unified Pay Scales in CoS 08). This is clearly not right.
If the Company wants S/Os, pay them S/O salary.
If the Company wants DEFO freighter guys, pay them freighter pay.
But if the Company wants DEFO pax guys, then pay them pax pay.
Right Pay for Right Job.
Some in the AOA, (Air Officers Association to those of you unfamiliar with the term our union goes by...), have actually been arguing that this amalgamation of pay scales is a fair way of looking at things bearing in mind the 'traditional entry streams' of the last few years bringing guys in as freighter F/Os, and S/Os. In their train of thought, they believe that it is a good thing all-round that New Joiners are being availed the opportunity to fly pax aircraft on joining.
Carrying this train of thought along just a little further, they would then be happy if New Joiners were given direct entry Capt slots whilst being paid freighter F/O salaries, because surely they would be happier being a Captain...?!
Those with this train of thought have been duped. I hope that clearer minds within the AOA will prevail and see the clear injustice taking place here.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Another huge issue not being discussed is the fact that every COS 99 Pax FO on a north american base will be forced to take a PAY CUT when the base goes on-shore and COS 08 is imposed on them.
I thought part of the deal was that the company could only force a contract change if it improves conditions? Am I missing something here??
I thought part of the deal was that the company could only force a contract change if it improves conditions? Am I missing something here??
Join Date: Nov 2005
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What you don’t realize is every pilot is on an individual contract. The AOA has no say in your contract. If the company imposes a contract and you choose not to dispute it, you accept it by acquiesces.
That is what CX is counting on. So you choose if you accept it. If you do, don’t complain. It is as simple as that.
It comes down to the parapet thing again, don’t think many will dispute it especially if you are of a lower rank but then again it’s that FEAR thing again, Captains included.
That is what CX is counting on. So you choose if you accept it. If you do, don’t complain. It is as simple as that.
It comes down to the parapet thing again, don’t think many will dispute it especially if you are of a lower rank but then again it’s that FEAR thing again, Captains included.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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BusyB
Mate. You may be tired of anybodys whining, well that is your problem. Looking at your arguments regarding B-Scaler's comments.
Hey he does not have to have solutions to problems, nor stand for election for the GC, in order to have an opinion about the AoA or anything else. Stop playing hat police.
Mate. You may be tired of anybodys whining, well that is your problem. Looking at your arguments regarding B-Scaler's comments.
Hey he does not have to have solutions to problems, nor stand for election for the GC, in order to have an opinion about the AoA or anything else. Stop playing hat police.