After the Emirates Brief, A perspective.
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I do my calculations the same way as Number Crunch. The last 7 years my C.O.S went one way. My friends in EK ,(now all Commanders, first time passes, in line with their career planning /management ) have seen only improvement. From CX graph being way ahead 7 years ago, the EK upward graph is now crossing the CX flat line (at best a flat line) . Then extend the two line’s 5 year into the future………..no brainer!
As far as lifestyle the only way is to go and visit 2 mate for a couple of days each and get the different perspectives and observe their everyday lifestyle.
Did not mind the sand up my a$$ as it was on a Harley and a kick a$$ scrambler, washed of kite surfing in crystal clear unpolluted water. Wife loved the driving to shopping mall out the car and in the shop in 200 meters not fighting a crowd, and my daughter is hooked on horse riding that is virtually free compare to Hong Kong price.
Everyone for himself, but financially compare apples with apples and CX is way behind
As far as lifestyle the only way is to go and visit 2 mate for a couple of days each and get the different perspectives and observe their everyday lifestyle.
Did not mind the sand up my a$$ as it was on a Harley and a kick a$$ scrambler, washed of kite surfing in crystal clear unpolluted water. Wife loved the driving to shopping mall out the car and in the shop in 200 meters not fighting a crowd, and my daughter is hooked on horse riding that is virtually free compare to Hong Kong price.
Everyone for himself, but financially compare apples with apples and CX is way behind
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Perhaps one other concern that I haven't addressed is that the recruitment of Direct Entry F/Os onto the passenger fleet in 2008 and the extension of captains beyond the age of 55 will slow down the number of upgrades. We have just completed the budget submission for next year and I can confirm that we plan to upgrade close to 90 S/Os to JF/O and 90 SF/Os to Captain in "08" very similar levels to "06" and "07". The limit on this continues to be set by the training capacity of the Company which is enhanced by extending C&T crew beyond the age of 55.
Here's a thought... maybe pay Check and Checkers a fair amount for the work they do and in addition employ enough so that you have surge capacity and hence no crap rosters, then maybe you will be able to keep them in the department longer, then you won't need to attack the conditions of employees purely to satisfy your bottom line.
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International bases on the horizon?
Does anyone know what the commuter policy at EK is? As mentioned in earlier posts living in Hong Kong or Dubai is really relative to an individual's needs. However CX seems to have overcome that hurdle by opening up pilot bases internationally. EK does offers quicker upgrades with better wages but the thought of living in DBX is rather a downer for many.
In a market thats seems to have a shortage of qualified pilots worldwide, one would think that EK would follow suit and start offering some international bases.
Any word on that? Has it ever been discussed at EK? Personally I'd sersiously consider EK if it did not involve living in Dubai. Now thats not really flame bait but a personal preference.
RL.
In a market thats seems to have a shortage of qualified pilots worldwide, one would think that EK would follow suit and start offering some international bases.
Any word on that? Has it ever been discussed at EK? Personally I'd sersiously consider EK if it did not involve living in Dubai. Now thats not really flame bait but a personal preference.
RL.
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Re:International bases on the horizon?
I attended the Singapore presentation on Monday
(headcount +/- 15, whereof 1 had applied on line)
Future basings are not considered and will not be in the future.
They want you to live in Dubai and "enjoy" the lifestyle.
(Commuting at your own risk....)
That's where I left the presentation.
(Headcount down to 14 lol)
(headcount +/- 15, whereof 1 had applied on line)
Future basings are not considered and will not be in the future.
They want you to live in Dubai and "enjoy" the lifestyle.
(Commuting at your own risk....)
That's where I left the presentation.
(Headcount down to 14 lol)
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The powers to be think that everyone cant wait to move to and live in Dubai but what they are missinf is that most expats that are in Dubai cant wait to leave.
Commuting very hard, flts are full ,no jump seat, no upgrades, ground staff will go out of there way to make your life hell..
The water is not clear anymore and the air is getting worst everyday.
Inflation @ 20% some things 50% increase
And dont get me started on the driving dangers.
Glad to hear thay the turnout was what it was in SIN
Commuting very hard, flts are full ,no jump seat, no upgrades, ground staff will go out of there way to make your life hell..
The water is not clear anymore and the air is getting worst everyday.
Inflation @ 20% some things 50% increase
And dont get me started on the driving dangers.
Glad to hear thay the turnout was what it was in SIN
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Commuting very hard, flts are full ,no jump seat, no upgrades, ground staff will go out of there way to make your life hell..
The water is not clear anymore and the air is getting worst everyday.
Inflation @ 20% some things 50% increase
And dont get me started on the driving dangers.
The water is not clear anymore and the air is getting worst everyday.
Inflation @ 20% some things 50% increase
And dont get me started on the driving dangers.
Christ, sounds like Hong Kong.
Essential Buzz
I think it is more to do with control. With pilots on bases they have to comply with foreign labour laws. Having all the pilots based in Dubai allows them to do what they like, i.e. break contracts, ban organised labour and fire at will.
I think it is more to do with control. With pilots on bases they have to comply with foreign labour laws. Having all the pilots based in Dubai allows them to do what they like, i.e. break contracts, ban organised labour and fire at will.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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CX has been attending the AIRINC. Seminars throughout the U.S., standing at the podium describing their expansion plans, how many new planes,CX's route structure, etc.
They have also got a full ad in AIRINC's magazine.
I agree with Red Liner.
Market Forces gents (and ladies), as we are reminded often. Bottom line - if we can't negotiate and remain united now then we deserve what we get and truly have no excuse.
They have also got a full ad in AIRINC's magazine.
I agree with Red Liner.
Market Forces gents (and ladies), as we are reminded often. Bottom line - if we can't negotiate and remain united now then we deserve what we get and truly have no excuse.
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EK's Big Plans
Ladies and Gents,
The EK Road-show presentation in HKG on Saturday was an interesting exercise in listening to what was said, understanding what was not being said, and attempting to read between the two based on the facts that were presented whilst remaining “on the rails”.
Perhaps I should start with some factual information. The presenters, CN Steve Westmacott (B777) and Donna (Flt Ops HR) delivered a mixed media presentation lasting a couple of hours.
The DVD that formed a substantial part of the presentation is floating around out there. According to Steve, they’ve “left 500 of them” in Singapore, Taipei and Hong Kong in the last week. A significant number of crew and a few partners attended the presentation.
As of this past week, EK Flight Operations HR has publically stated a target of 550 new joiners for the next year. The aircraft numbers arriving into their fleet are staggering. By 2008, EK will take one new aircraft every two weeks for the foreseeable future. Accordingly, it’s clear that the career prospects are equally as staggering.
There are presently a limited number of places for direct entry commands on the B777 only. Presumably they have sufficient applications in this area to meet their current target for this group and the impression that was given was that this was a small part of the overall requirement. Initial FO entry is based on a joiner with sufficient experience to achieve a command in 3 to 5 years. A limited number of FO entries are available for an accelerated command; i.e. < less than 3 years, however no guarantees. There is however a training bond arrangement to be dealt with by successful recruits
The EK company “projection” of your future involvement with EK and the UAE reflects the general economic projection of the UAE itself; come to EK to live and work in the UAE. Basing beyond DXB has not and is not a feature of the strategic plan and there is no foreseeable change on this position.
According to the presenters, UAE economic growth currently tops the world growth list at 16% year on year. Development in DXB, visually, economically and statistically, bears testimony to this fact and EK are quite “bullish” about this fact. From an aviation perspective, the present and projected rise of the Middle-East and Asian aviation hubs is the EK cause for aggressive business plans and they intend to capitalise on this situation in a very big way.
The other side of the economic picture is a current annual inflation rate that was stated as 10% per annum. This factor is being driven largely by the cost of housing, which goes so far as to be a large driving factor in the manner in which the EK accommodation package is presently established, managed and provided to staff. Accommodation appears to be a “take what you get” arrangement because there are very few choices really available, due to cost, availability and practicality.
The presenters were a little “hair triggered” about the EK total remuneration package. I pondered as to why and surmised that the number of components that have to be considered within the total package results in an unclear picture of the deal that’s on offer; direct remuneration – salary, duty allowances, education, other assistances; indirect remuneration – accommodation free, utilities free, tax free.
The management of the current and future remuneration package at EK is set to account for inflation through planned future adjustments. It also accounts for the burgeoning demand for overseas crew by having a currency protection mechanism built into the package, acknowledging that their crew have currency issues beyond the UAE.
To be fair, the presenters laid out a balanced view of life in DXB and the UAE, outlining the clear “pluses and minuses” which routinely are discussed by ex-patriot crew around the Asia-Pacific.
Comment:
Quite clearly, analysis of the career prospects and the current remuneration offer indicate that no prospective new joiner to a HKG based airline can ignore the offer at EK. No SO or FO position on offer in HKG at present offers anywhere near the potential reward.
The situation for experienced crew is however very different. EK have just spent the last week in the backyards of substantial airlines such Singapore Airlines, Eva Airways, China Airlines, Cathay Pacific Airways and Dragon Air, not to mention numerous smaller carriers. They’ve outlined that the vast majority of future recruitment will be as FOs, but what’s being offered to lever this group into an EK future is however not yet enough to compel experienced crew to commit to such a future.
http://www.emiratesgroupcareers.com/ExploreOurCareers/FlightDeckCrew/FlightDeck.asp
The EK Road-show presentation in HKG on Saturday was an interesting exercise in listening to what was said, understanding what was not being said, and attempting to read between the two based on the facts that were presented whilst remaining “on the rails”.
Perhaps I should start with some factual information. The presenters, CN Steve Westmacott (B777) and Donna (Flt Ops HR) delivered a mixed media presentation lasting a couple of hours.
The DVD that formed a substantial part of the presentation is floating around out there. According to Steve, they’ve “left 500 of them” in Singapore, Taipei and Hong Kong in the last week. A significant number of crew and a few partners attended the presentation.
As of this past week, EK Flight Operations HR has publically stated a target of 550 new joiners for the next year. The aircraft numbers arriving into their fleet are staggering. By 2008, EK will take one new aircraft every two weeks for the foreseeable future. Accordingly, it’s clear that the career prospects are equally as staggering.
There are presently a limited number of places for direct entry commands on the B777 only. Presumably they have sufficient applications in this area to meet their current target for this group and the impression that was given was that this was a small part of the overall requirement. Initial FO entry is based on a joiner with sufficient experience to achieve a command in 3 to 5 years. A limited number of FO entries are available for an accelerated command; i.e. < less than 3 years, however no guarantees. There is however a training bond arrangement to be dealt with by successful recruits
The EK company “projection” of your future involvement with EK and the UAE reflects the general economic projection of the UAE itself; come to EK to live and work in the UAE. Basing beyond DXB has not and is not a feature of the strategic plan and there is no foreseeable change on this position.
According to the presenters, UAE economic growth currently tops the world growth list at 16% year on year. Development in DXB, visually, economically and statistically, bears testimony to this fact and EK are quite “bullish” about this fact. From an aviation perspective, the present and projected rise of the Middle-East and Asian aviation hubs is the EK cause for aggressive business plans and they intend to capitalise on this situation in a very big way.
The other side of the economic picture is a current annual inflation rate that was stated as 10% per annum. This factor is being driven largely by the cost of housing, which goes so far as to be a large driving factor in the manner in which the EK accommodation package is presently established, managed and provided to staff. Accommodation appears to be a “take what you get” arrangement because there are very few choices really available, due to cost, availability and practicality.
The presenters were a little “hair triggered” about the EK total remuneration package. I pondered as to why and surmised that the number of components that have to be considered within the total package results in an unclear picture of the deal that’s on offer; direct remuneration – salary, duty allowances, education, other assistances; indirect remuneration – accommodation free, utilities free, tax free.
The management of the current and future remuneration package at EK is set to account for inflation through planned future adjustments. It also accounts for the burgeoning demand for overseas crew by having a currency protection mechanism built into the package, acknowledging that their crew have currency issues beyond the UAE.
To be fair, the presenters laid out a balanced view of life in DXB and the UAE, outlining the clear “pluses and minuses” which routinely are discussed by ex-patriot crew around the Asia-Pacific.
Comment:
Quite clearly, analysis of the career prospects and the current remuneration offer indicate that no prospective new joiner to a HKG based airline can ignore the offer at EK. No SO or FO position on offer in HKG at present offers anywhere near the potential reward.
The situation for experienced crew is however very different. EK have just spent the last week in the backyards of substantial airlines such Singapore Airlines, Eva Airways, China Airlines, Cathay Pacific Airways and Dragon Air, not to mention numerous smaller carriers. They’ve outlined that the vast majority of future recruitment will be as FOs, but what’s being offered to lever this group into an EK future is however not yet enough to compel experienced crew to commit to such a future.
http://www.emiratesgroupcareers.com/ExploreOurCareers/FlightDeckCrew/FlightDeck.asp
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Absolutely spot on mate. My thoughts are certainly not enough to lure the more senior guys at CX and KA but as a new joiner they win hands down, depending of course on where you are happy to live.
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housing allowance
Putting aside living in dubai, this is a personal thing that means something different for everyone for a variety of reasons, just concentrate on the housing.
If you're an SO or FO in HK at the moment with a family then you're starting to get priced out of the housing market, a single guy/girl can comfortably live in a 800-1000 sq foot place.
For me(single), the ability to be able to buy a place with the allowance in HK and have the captital growth go into my pocket is the only reason i'm here. You cannot even rent, let alone buy a similar apartment in dubai with the housing allowance they offer. so for me its not a good financial decision to go.
If I had a family here in HK there would be no way I would be able to buy a suitable place with the allowance now, hence I would be on the first camel train to the desert to live in one of those flash villas and have my kids' education paid for(tax free!).
If you're an SO or FO in HK at the moment with a family then you're starting to get priced out of the housing market, a single guy/girl can comfortably live in a 800-1000 sq foot place.
For me(single), the ability to be able to buy a place with the allowance in HK and have the captital growth go into my pocket is the only reason i'm here. You cannot even rent, let alone buy a similar apartment in dubai with the housing allowance they offer. so for me its not a good financial decision to go.
If I had a family here in HK there would be no way I would be able to buy a suitable place with the allowance now, hence I would be on the first camel train to the desert to live in one of those flash villas and have my kids' education paid for(tax free!).
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404 Titan, correct me if I am wrong, but can they not do what EVA have been doing for years? They are based out of Taipei but have extended roster patterns in say your base area (6 days off). Local labor laws don’t apply.
Didn’t we have that once?
Didn’t we have that once?
Mr. Bloggs
They probably could. My understanding though is that CX is on shoring the bases as a direct result of the “Croft” high court case in the UK. I really don’t know if this would apply to extended rosters though. It certainly is a grey area which may need to be tested. The question though is EK up for it considering the shellacking CX got?
They probably could. My understanding though is that CX is on shoring the bases as a direct result of the “Croft” high court case in the UK. I really don’t know if this would apply to extended rosters though. It certainly is a grey area which may need to be tested. The question though is EK up for it considering the shellacking CX got?
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CX seems to be boasting about the UK base only. They say other bases will follow. Is it a ruse? Can’t really see them going On-Shore in other areas especially, the USA? Are they playing us again?