Where are people going?
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mini cooper
I am an A scaler and I work hard and I get the renumeration to boot and I will go to 65 so suck on that ! Where's that new contract! Hey also mini you need to do something about your GRAMMAR!
Join Date: Oct 2006
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mineok65 and cunning
Many questions to answer - will answer a few.
Rental assistance.
Once you are past the first 2 years (as an SO) you get what is called the Rent Free Zone(RFZ). This amount will give you a reasonable standard but not great. If you choose to use this money to buy, you will need to downgrade your standards in order to pay off your flat in a reasonable time frame. Or, just like Sydney, you can go to the outer suburbs and get a house but with the appropriate reduced potential capital gain and long commute time!
Its a bit difficult to quantify but assuming you are just renting in HKG, then you will come out ahead as you can live 'rent free' in HKG and buy the house/flat you want in OZ and rent it out.
Education.
Not as good as it looks. In the blurb it says you get 90% of ESF rate(or 75% of other schools)...sounds good. BUT, I would say the majority of CX expats have their kids in International Schools where the fees are significantly higher. CX will pay up to 75% of these fees but the amount is taxed. To keep it simple assume you will pay about 1/3rd of school fees (after tax) which will be around $3-5K AUD(that you will pay) for primary school.
Basings.
If you want the backyard etc then you may end up wanting an Aussie base. It is hard to predict the effects of our changing retirement age on basing availability but I suspect it will make them harder to get. On a base, on the UFO scale, you will be on approx $94K before tax. Eventually that will rise up to $140K'ish after 4-5 years on the base. Obviously these salaries are fully taxed in Oz and you do NOT get any expat benefits.
Command
Its hard to predict...right now it is about 13 years in QF and 9 years in CX. QF already has RA65(via domestic fleet) and CX is moving towards RA65. My best guess is that command(with RA65) will be at 12-13 year mark in CX unless they ramp up the expansion massively - and no external shocks like SARS, 9-11, asian contagion, bird flu etc etc.
Career earnings?
Good question - if I had joined QF when I joined CX I would be earning more but I would be paying Aussie tax. Cost of living in HKG with kids is much higher than Oz. If I went on a base now I would definitely be on less than I would be on in QF right now. Thats the past, the future.....?
There are many intangibles that cannot be numerated. Such as the ability to bid across aircraft. In CX there is minimal control over that. Roster bidding is in its nascent stage in CX. Someone of my seniority in QF would be on about $70-90K AUD more a year than I am on now as an A scaler in HKG.
Bottom line - apply to both. If both offer you a job then you can decide what is important to you.
Rental assistance.
Once you are past the first 2 years (as an SO) you get what is called the Rent Free Zone(RFZ). This amount will give you a reasonable standard but not great. If you choose to use this money to buy, you will need to downgrade your standards in order to pay off your flat in a reasonable time frame. Or, just like Sydney, you can go to the outer suburbs and get a house but with the appropriate reduced potential capital gain and long commute time!
Its a bit difficult to quantify but assuming you are just renting in HKG, then you will come out ahead as you can live 'rent free' in HKG and buy the house/flat you want in OZ and rent it out.
Education.
Not as good as it looks. In the blurb it says you get 90% of ESF rate(or 75% of other schools)...sounds good. BUT, I would say the majority of CX expats have their kids in International Schools where the fees are significantly higher. CX will pay up to 75% of these fees but the amount is taxed. To keep it simple assume you will pay about 1/3rd of school fees (after tax) which will be around $3-5K AUD(that you will pay) for primary school.
Basings.
If you want the backyard etc then you may end up wanting an Aussie base. It is hard to predict the effects of our changing retirement age on basing availability but I suspect it will make them harder to get. On a base, on the UFO scale, you will be on approx $94K before tax. Eventually that will rise up to $140K'ish after 4-5 years on the base. Obviously these salaries are fully taxed in Oz and you do NOT get any expat benefits.
Command
Its hard to predict...right now it is about 13 years in QF and 9 years in CX. QF already has RA65(via domestic fleet) and CX is moving towards RA65. My best guess is that command(with RA65) will be at 12-13 year mark in CX unless they ramp up the expansion massively - and no external shocks like SARS, 9-11, asian contagion, bird flu etc etc.
Career earnings?
Good question - if I had joined QF when I joined CX I would be earning more but I would be paying Aussie tax. Cost of living in HKG with kids is much higher than Oz. If I went on a base now I would definitely be on less than I would be on in QF right now. Thats the past, the future.....?
There are many intangibles that cannot be numerated. Such as the ability to bid across aircraft. In CX there is minimal control over that. Roster bidding is in its nascent stage in CX. Someone of my seniority in QF would be on about $70-90K AUD more a year than I am on now as an A scaler in HKG.
Bottom line - apply to both. If both offer you a job then you can decide what is important to you.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
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"I am an A scaler and I work hard and I get the renumeration to boot and I will go to 65 so suck on that ! Where's that new contract! Hey also mini you need to do something about your GRAMMAR!"
Whilst on the suject of GRAMMAR, (& spelling), what is "renumeration" please?
Could it be, "This street has been renumerated" meaning all the numbers have been changed? Just can't find it in the OED!
Whilst on the suject of GRAMMAR, (& spelling), what is "renumeration" please?
Could it be, "This street has been renumerated" meaning all the numbers have been changed? Just can't find it in the OED!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Numero Crunchero
I gather you are under the impression that to go past 60 in QF you have to go domestic...........until recently that was the case but no longer so. Having said that I don't think many in long haul are going passed 60 due to the new tax rules on retirees earnings, there is none!
Isn't it funny how everyone views other jobs differently with sand and money, high rise and money, BBQs and tax!
I gather you are under the impression that to go past 60 in QF you have to go domestic...........until recently that was the case but no longer so. Having said that I don't think many in long haul are going passed 60 due to the new tax rules on retirees earnings, there is none!
Isn't it funny how everyone views other jobs differently with sand and money, high rise and money, BBQs and tax!
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Offchocks
Thanks mate. I didn't realise that it had already been sorted - in the last month or so I assume.
I assume you are QF? If so, with the div 3 super and the new div 7(?) super, do you think it likely that pilots will still stop at 60? I know div 3 payouts but have little knowledge of div 7. If it is anything like our DC scheme then i suspect, tax free or not, guys will need to work a little longer to get the PF up to where it needs to be to retire.
cheers
I assume you are QF? If so, with the div 3 super and the new div 7(?) super, do you think it likely that pilots will still stop at 60? I know div 3 payouts but have little knowledge of div 7. If it is anything like our DC scheme then i suspect, tax free or not, guys will need to work a little longer to get the PF up to where it needs to be to retire.
cheers
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Numero Crunchero
Yes I'm with QF, I did reply earlier but it got lost out there in the big web.
Div 3 is relatively new (12 yrs?) and the members have quite a while to go before retirement. Therefore there is no serious talk of them extending past 60, not many are happy with their super situation and quite a few are investing elsewhere.
Div 7 must be something new that I've not heard about.
Yes I'm with QF, I did reply earlier but it got lost out there in the big web.
Div 3 is relatively new (12 yrs?) and the members have quite a while to go before retirement. Therefore there is no serious talk of them extending past 60, not many are happy with their super situation and quite a few are investing elsewhere.
Div 7 must be something new that I've not heard about.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Much obliged NC
Many thanks for the all the info, you should have become a business analyst, by now you'd be earning more than an QF and CX CN combined !
From what you've said, I think a large part of it comes down to how long you plan to spend in the company. With over twenty years left in me I'm thinking the QF option might provide more bang for my buck at the back end of my career when I'll definitely want to be home for the kids high school years, but then again the choice of living anywhere in the world that Cathay offers is very appealing.
I'll keep pondering, and thanks once again. Fingers crossed for a fragrant harbour pay rise soon, well overdue.
From what you've said, I think a large part of it comes down to how long you plan to spend in the company. With over twenty years left in me I'm thinking the QF option might provide more bang for my buck at the back end of my career when I'll definitely want to be home for the kids high school years, but then again the choice of living anywhere in the world that Cathay offers is very appealing.
I'll keep pondering, and thanks once again. Fingers crossed for a fragrant harbour pay rise soon, well overdue.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Mini –Cooper.
When I joined CX they use to say goodbye to all crew that resigned. This has stopped. Wonder why? It would probably be the longest part of the Friday brief. I dare to say that at the junior ranks we have more people leaving then EK.
Where are they going? Air France will take non-French speakers and give them a 3-month language course (I have asked CX numerous times to assist us with Cantonese / Mandarin classes, but this cost time and money remember)
Corporate across the road pay very well on some seriously well equipped machines.
SAS are recalling etc,etc…
When I joined CX they use to say goodbye to all crew that resigned. This has stopped. Wonder why? It would probably be the longest part of the Friday brief. I dare to say that at the junior ranks we have more people leaving then EK.
Where are they going? Air France will take non-French speakers and give them a 3-month language course (I have asked CX numerous times to assist us with Cantonese / Mandarin classes, but this cost time and money remember)
Corporate across the road pay very well on some seriously well equipped machines.
SAS are recalling etc,etc…
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Very few pilots will leave CX. Many don’t have the courage. Many will beat their chests and make lots of noise but in the end it is all hot air. Typical CX pilot.
You will be accepting this new offer, you just don’t realize it yet.
The Management
You will be accepting this new offer, you just don’t realize it yet.
The Management
