B777 JFO Failure Rates
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Join Date: Apr 2001
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B777 JFO Failure Rates
The JFO QL line check failure rate on the B777 is at an all time high, 5 out of the last 6 have failed outright, before the star chamber had the chance!
Having said that, the checkers have been quite happy to sign the same check flight as an annual line check, hence they stay on line but at a reduced pay level. Maybe the Airbus mentality is slowly working it's way accross to the rest of the company?
Having said that, the checkers have been quite happy to sign the same check flight as an annual line check, hence they stay on line but at a reduced pay level. Maybe the Airbus mentality is slowly working it's way accross to the rest of the company?
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Mate, you are with the frontline company aviator in the world. We have requirements here. That is why we ha earned out renown name in the industry. We invented aviation. Here you dont just get to fly our heavy jets without earning the right to do that. If you are not good enough, hench those five caps who will have to have yet another go soon, you just have to work harder and put the ship down on the marks. Sure our praised company saves a bit here and there but at the end of the day we will all (almost that is) benefit from their failure to perfom - the profit share. The sooner you realize that everything comes at a price, the sooner you shall appreciate you life at Cathay. Better luck next time chaps. 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Ha! ha! ( sic ), frontline aviator in the world? Frontline aviators do not botch simple windshear recoveries/go-arounds!
Speedlever, have you consider the fact that some airmen with grandiose, meglomaniacal tendencies want to erect fortresses and keep out the lowly ( as perceived by them ) small fries so that they can maintain a stranglehold in HK aviation for their fellow "boys", and using the failures as a statistics to crow to the world that they have the best standards. Colonialism in mordern garb.
Speedlever, have you consider the fact that some airmen with grandiose, meglomaniacal tendencies want to erect fortresses and keep out the lowly ( as perceived by them ) small fries so that they can maintain a stranglehold in HK aviation for their fellow "boys", and using the failures as a statistics to crow to the world that they have the best standards. Colonialism in mordern garb.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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What is the real cost
This whole programme of JFO pay should be part of the pay negotiations. In other words if a JFO gets a x% pay rise (and I am saying if!!) then what good is it if he is held back from FO upgrade. The JFO does not get that money back and therefore it would take a very large increase to offset the months pay at the JFO scale. Do not remember the numbers off the top of my head (I was one of the luck ones and got the back pay) maybe someone going through right now could outline the costs to a JFO if he does not get through right away.
Also the company should realise that any savings they reap by holding back JFOs who are actually fit to upgrade is lost in the extra load on the training system. The lack of training resources that could otherwise be applied to needed training (ie command courses and SO courses and DFO courses). As it stands now we are not achieving the required numbers to man inbound a/c so we are n danger of loosing market share and slots. All because the JFO upgrade is over the top more difficult than it needs to be.
peace out !
Also the company should realise that any savings they reap by holding back JFOs who are actually fit to upgrade is lost in the extra load on the training system. The lack of training resources that could otherwise be applied to needed training (ie command courses and SO courses and DFO courses). As it stands now we are not achieving the required numbers to man inbound a/c so we are n danger of loosing market share and slots. All because the JFO upgrade is over the top more difficult than it needs to be.
peace out !
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Well said, Raj! The botched wind shear recovery by the aces in CX is popular case study in CRM/human factors and safety courses nowadays.
Also, truly colonial thinking pervades in Cx, KA, RBA etc
Also, truly colonial thinking pervades in Cx, KA, RBA etc
Sorry for my ignorance, but i don't work for Cathay.
Are these guys/gals selected for JFO training based on seniority or does meritocracy come into play. I would suggest that if the people are selected based on a minimum standard, and then then majority fail, that there is a system failure. Whether it is at the selection and training level is not for me to comment.
How can a premium carrier hold it head high when then majority of THEIR trainees are below their standard.
Am i missing something.
Are these guys/gals selected for JFO training based on seniority or does meritocracy come into play. I would suggest that if the people are selected based on a minimum standard, and then then majority fail, that there is a system failure. Whether it is at the selection and training level is not for me to comment.
How can a premium carrier hold it head high when then majority of THEIR trainees are below their standard.
Am i missing something.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Back in the old days, newbies join as a 2-stripes F/O. Then you become a SF/O with two and half stripes. All ULH flights were on the classic and there were 5 crew, 2 capts., 1 F/O, and 2 SF/Es.
The present structure at CX is way too complicated. It makes no difference whether I fly with 2 stripers or 3 stripers. I got to admit the term JFO sounds a lot nicer than Acting F/O.
The present structure at CX is way too complicated. It makes no difference whether I fly with 2 stripers or 3 stripers. I got to admit the term JFO sounds a lot nicer than Acting F/O.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Down to the Beans!
What in the 
? It's all down to the bean counters for sure!
2.5 stripes? where in the did they get that from? what happened to the "senior first officer" too? cant have that sounds too good right? how about " training captain?" now I like that...
Sorry to hear about you guys that got caught up in the way things are with the bean counters running the show... or even the " training caps" that think they are bettering the companies fiscal situation by keeping you down, with no clue as to why they are doing it?
Raj: love the word megalomaniacal... (A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence.)
Sums it all up nicely!
? It's all down to the bean counters for sure!2.5 stripes? where in the
did they get that from? what happened to the "senior first officer" too? cant have that sounds too good right? how about " training captain?" now I like that...Sorry to hear about you guys that got caught up in the way things are with the bean counters running the show... or even the "
training caps" that think they are bettering the companies fiscal situation by keeping you down, with no clue as to why they are doing it?Raj: love the word megalomaniacal... (A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence.)
Sums it all up nicely!
