OK...CX, the BOTTOM LINE
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OK...CX, the BOTTOM LINE
OK…..
There is so much ‘noise’ on the internet and with-in the Airline Pilot world about CX, the pay structures and promotion scales, that I have become VERY CONFUSED.
(and I think I am not the only one)
So is there is anyone out there who can help me with THE BOTTOM LINE DETAILS:
QUESTIONS:
1) WHAT IS THE GROSS SALARY FOR A 2ND and 1st OFFICER?
2) IS THERE A DUTY ALLOWANCE? IE: FLYING PAY OVER AND ABOVE THE BASIC SALARY?
3) Ie: WHAT CAN ONE EXPECT AS THE BOTTOM RIGHT HAND ON THE PAY CHECK for A 2ND AND 2ST OFFICER?
4) WHAT ARE THE ‘S&T’S LIKE?
5) IS THE PAY STRUCTURE ON THE PAX/CARGO FLEETS MUCH DIFFERENT?
6) I HEAR THE TAX BASE WILL BE RASED FROM 15% TO 25%. TRUE/FALSE?
7) WHAT ARE THE CRITERIA FOR THE HOUSING ALLOWANCES IN HONG KONG (as they quote an allocation of $14000 , but could be $ 44000???? I’m confused)
8) WHAT IS THE EXACT SCHOOLING POLICY? Another grey area?
9) IF I ACCEPTEPETED A POST AS A SECOND OFFICER, WHEN COULD I EXPECT UPGRADE TO 1ST OFFICER. Ie: how long until I can apply for the upgrade (bearing in mind that I am presently a type rated 1st officer – with another Airliner)
10) WHAT IS THE POLICY IF I DELINE A 2ND OFFICER OFFER, AND ADVISE THAT I WILL ONLYACCEPT A DIRRECT ENTRY 1ST OFFICER POST? How will that go down/ or be viewed?
11) HOW LONG UNTIL I MAY REQUEST AN OUT-STATION POST (LIKE AUSTRALIA).
12) BEARING IN MIND THAT I ULTIMATELY WISH TO END UP BACK in AUSTRALIA, WHICH FLEET/CAREAR PATH WOULD BE BEST?
I really hope that this information clarifies a lot of ‘smoke and mirrors’ mumbo-jumbo out there for myself and many other CX Wanabees….
Regards,
SPIPLANE
There is so much ‘noise’ on the internet and with-in the Airline Pilot world about CX, the pay structures and promotion scales, that I have become VERY CONFUSED.
(and I think I am not the only one)So is there is anyone out there who can help me with THE BOTTOM LINE DETAILS:
QUESTIONS:
1) WHAT IS THE GROSS SALARY FOR A 2ND and 1st OFFICER?
2) IS THERE A DUTY ALLOWANCE? IE: FLYING PAY OVER AND ABOVE THE BASIC SALARY?
3) Ie: WHAT CAN ONE EXPECT AS THE BOTTOM RIGHT HAND ON THE PAY CHECK for A 2ND AND 2ST OFFICER?
4) WHAT ARE THE ‘S&T’S LIKE?
5) IS THE PAY STRUCTURE ON THE PAX/CARGO FLEETS MUCH DIFFERENT?
6) I HEAR THE TAX BASE WILL BE RASED FROM 15% TO 25%. TRUE/FALSE?
7) WHAT ARE THE CRITERIA FOR THE HOUSING ALLOWANCES IN HONG KONG (as they quote an allocation of $14000 , but could be $ 44000???? I’m confused)
8) WHAT IS THE EXACT SCHOOLING POLICY? Another grey area?
9) IF I ACCEPTEPETED A POST AS A SECOND OFFICER, WHEN COULD I EXPECT UPGRADE TO 1ST OFFICER. Ie: how long until I can apply for the upgrade (bearing in mind that I am presently a type rated 1st officer – with another Airliner)
10) WHAT IS THE POLICY IF I DELINE A 2ND OFFICER OFFER, AND ADVISE THAT I WILL ONLYACCEPT A DIRRECT ENTRY 1ST OFFICER POST? How will that go down/ or be viewed?
11) HOW LONG UNTIL I MAY REQUEST AN OUT-STATION POST (LIKE AUSTRALIA).
12) BEARING IN MIND THAT I ULTIMATELY WISH TO END UP BACK in AUSTRALIA, WHICH FLEET/CAREAR PATH WOULD BE BEST?
I really hope that this information clarifies a lot of ‘smoke and mirrors’ mumbo-jumbo out there for myself and many other CX Wanabees….
Regards,
SPIPLANE
Not being nasty but every question you have asked has been answered on various threads over the last few months on this or wannabe forums.
I suggest you do the research yourself and not depend solely on one reply.
Good Luck
I suggest you do the research yourself and not depend solely on one reply.
Good Luck
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Sir Spiplane
It is confusing for you because you have failed to put in much effort and research. Your questions indicate this and are therefore somewhat difficult to answer.
I am feeling charitable however so I will give you some guidance within the boundaries of my limited knowledge!
1) There are different base areas for First officers and also freighter and passenger fleets, all of these are therefore different and in different currencies. SO = $386,556 HKD Aust based pax FO $110,892 (Freighter earns about 85% of pax approx)
2) Yes there is a duty allowance it is variable also but say about 5% (SO $20 per hour up to 84 hours per month and FO $8 AUD) Once again it depends on base area so take that as a guide.
3) Use the figures above and work it out! Tax is not deducted (yet!)
4) S&T's is not a term I am familiar with
5) See 1 above
6) Tax base? Do you mean tax rate in Hong Kong? See link below but I would say no.
http://www.ird.gov.hk/eng/welcome.htm
7) Starts at about $24000 HKD pcm for SO, nothing for Freighter FO's. IS now up to about $53 000 HKG pcm but depends on renting buying etc. Others may be able to help with this as I am on a base and ineligible.
8) Again not my area, no children!
9) You will be interviewed for a particular position depending on your experience. There may be scope to change if you meet the criteria for the other position.
10) See above.
11) When eligible and seniority allows. In this case I expect you are referring to a SO start with an FO transfer. About 3 years at present.
12) Australia has Airbus pax fleet and 744 freighter fleet (from late July). This could change but you are able to change fleets once per career to get yourself onto a base.
There is a lot of information here on pprune or ppjn and in the interview books.
Good luck, you will need to prepare and research a little better if you stand a chance of success at interview.
It is confusing for you because you have failed to put in much effort and research. Your questions indicate this and are therefore somewhat difficult to answer.
I am feeling charitable however so I will give you some guidance within the boundaries of my limited knowledge!
1) There are different base areas for First officers and also freighter and passenger fleets, all of these are therefore different and in different currencies. SO = $386,556 HKD Aust based pax FO $110,892 (Freighter earns about 85% of pax approx)
2) Yes there is a duty allowance it is variable also but say about 5% (SO $20 per hour up to 84 hours per month and FO $8 AUD) Once again it depends on base area so take that as a guide.
3) Use the figures above and work it out! Tax is not deducted (yet!)
4) S&T's is not a term I am familiar with
5) See 1 above
6) Tax base? Do you mean tax rate in Hong Kong? See link below but I would say no.
http://www.ird.gov.hk/eng/welcome.htm
7) Starts at about $24000 HKD pcm for SO, nothing for Freighter FO's. IS now up to about $53 000 HKG pcm but depends on renting buying etc. Others may be able to help with this as I am on a base and ineligible.
8) Again not my area, no children!
9) You will be interviewed for a particular position depending on your experience. There may be scope to change if you meet the criteria for the other position.
10) See above.
11) When eligible and seniority allows. In this case I expect you are referring to a SO start with an FO transfer. About 3 years at present.
12) Australia has Airbus pax fleet and 744 freighter fleet (from late July). This could change but you are able to change fleets once per career to get yourself onto a base.
There is a lot of information here on pprune or ppjn and in the interview books.
Good luck, you will need to prepare and research a little better if you stand a chance of success at interview.
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Possibly a silly question but are pilots on allowances when down-route? I.e The $20 per hour for S/O's is not just 'flying' hours?
Also what are the internal minimums to transfer to FO Freighter etc if you are an S/O?
Cheers
SV
Also what are the internal minimums to transfer to FO Freighter etc if you are an S/O?
Cheers
SV
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Pay vs Costs.....The bottom line
This goes without saying....but I'll say it anyway. When you are comparing pay amongst airlines, be sure to include tax and living costs.
For example, as a F/O based in HKG with full housing allowance, normal education allowance for 3 children (covers about 80%), full medical, provident fund etc, you will make ends meet, but you cannot expect to save and have a life at the same time.
Proof in the pudding here is that you will find most officers still take out a loan each year to pay their tax.
Hong Kong is not the same as living in your home country. If you manage to save anything at all in the first 2 years then you will be doing very well. So, you can crunch all the numbers, but a good reality check is simply to ask others how they go by the end of each tax year.
You will probably also find that many here who have done well have either: Bought a house and done very well, started their own business and done very well, or saved really hard (then got sick of living in HK and gone home!).
For every story of someone doing well there are two more stories of people living in small highrise apartments with their families trying to make ends meet. Not so long ago many of those were in negative equity for up to HK$1m - then you are tied to HK to prevent bunkrupcy.
Another indicator worth looking at is the high divorce rate
Put simply, when you are trying to save every penny you earn and not enjoying life, there is often pressure from the rest of the family to move "home". This move often takes place and people get a permanent basing, but just as often it results in only one partner leaving while the other commutes, or a more permanent separation.
If the pay and conditions are all so good then why aren't we all retiring before age 55 ?
Many of us would if we could afford to. And, this week the company stated their objective to raise the retirement age to 65. You can now expect to spread the same career earnings over another 10 years, one way or another.
So, even if you can earn twice as much as you are currently earning in Oz, it won't help much if your living costs more than double, or if a court orders you to give half of your career savings to another person !!
For example, as a F/O based in HKG with full housing allowance, normal education allowance for 3 children (covers about 80%), full medical, provident fund etc, you will make ends meet, but you cannot expect to save and have a life at the same time.
Proof in the pudding here is that you will find most officers still take out a loan each year to pay their tax.
Hong Kong is not the same as living in your home country. If you manage to save anything at all in the first 2 years then you will be doing very well. So, you can crunch all the numbers, but a good reality check is simply to ask others how they go by the end of each tax year.
You will probably also find that many here who have done well have either: Bought a house and done very well, started their own business and done very well, or saved really hard (then got sick of living in HK and gone home!).
For every story of someone doing well there are two more stories of people living in small highrise apartments with their families trying to make ends meet. Not so long ago many of those were in negative equity for up to HK$1m - then you are tied to HK to prevent bunkrupcy.
Another indicator worth looking at is the high divorce rate
Put simply, when you are trying to save every penny you earn and not enjoying life, there is often pressure from the rest of the family to move "home". This move often takes place and people get a permanent basing, but just as often it results in only one partner leaving while the other commutes, or a more permanent separation.
If the pay and conditions are all so good then why aren't we all retiring before age 55 ?
Many of us would if we could afford to. And, this week the company stated their objective to raise the retirement age to 65. You can now expect to spread the same career earnings over another 10 years, one way or another.
So, even if you can earn twice as much as you are currently earning in Oz, it won't help much if your living costs more than double, or if a court orders you to give half of your career savings to another person !!
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Well said Rice pudding.
Friend of mine said he has$3K left to live on till payday(26th). He is not a spendthrift, lives in DB, has one young child and is an SO. They are living off money they brought up from offshore.
He has no car, no rental(RFZ), no education and no medical expenses and no commuting expenses.
By the way...the edn allowance is taxed. If you send your kids to say DBIS, you get 75% back from CX but will pay 16% tax on the 75% which leaves you with 63% funded. And good luck finding ESF schools...most people have their kids in International schools and so have this same problem!
ANother thing...anyone who joined after mid 97. Your dependants are covered for surgery in HKG up to certain limits. An FO found out a year ago when he got an $80,000 bill from CX - the emergency surgery was $130,000 for his wife but CX covered $50,000(?) - he now has private health cover for them.
Friend of mine said he has$3K left to live on till payday(26th). He is not a spendthrift, lives in DB, has one young child and is an SO. They are living off money they brought up from offshore.
He has no car, no rental(RFZ), no education and no medical expenses and no commuting expenses.
By the way...the edn allowance is taxed. If you send your kids to say DBIS, you get 75% back from CX but will pay 16% tax on the 75% which leaves you with 63% funded. And good luck finding ESF schools...most people have their kids in International schools and so have this same problem!
ANother thing...anyone who joined after mid 97. Your dependants are covered for surgery in HKG up to certain limits. An FO found out a year ago when he got an $80,000 bill from CX - the emergency surgery was $130,000 for his wife but CX covered $50,000(?) - he now has private health cover for them.
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Ah, see now we talking the low down stuff - and getting to the bottom of this all.
Thanks guys, this is the kind off stuff Im looking for.
Lets hear it. THE TRUETH!...
Regards.
SP
Thanks guys, this is the kind off stuff Im looking for.
Lets hear it. THE TRUETH!...
Regards.
SP
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Yes..also thanks. Need the details of the packages. The packages look good from the outside...but when you tear them down, may not be as good as it seems. I can see the education allowance being taxed can change your tax bill dramatically the more kids you have. How about the house allowance? Is that taxed as well? Because if you add it all up...as I have...house allowance at max, retirement pay, 13 month, plus salary and maybe 1 or 2 kids in school, you are paying 15% tax on about 200grand not the 90grand salary. Big difference. Thanks. More info please!
