Is there any HAPPY Pilots @ CX????
the reality of life is much less simple than your 'humble' opinion would suggest
Last edited by BuzzBox; 21st May 2007 at 07:46.
There are plenty of other places rather than DB to live in. I know some people like it, fair enough. I've visited DB 5 times in 19 years and two those were for AOA meetings.
My family lived happily in the NT and schooled there. You make your own choice where you live.
My family lived happily in the NT and schooled there. You make your own choice where you live.
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Ah actually we didn't have the huge range of choices you mention. I joined on an allowance of $19700HKD for housing back in a time when you were lucky to get a 2 bed apartment for that. I didn't want to drive for an hour and a half in a car that was costing me more to run per day than it would to feed a third world country, besides that the wage wouldn't allow it. So that pretty much leaves TC or DB. So what's it gonna be stuck in the fish bowl or stuck in the fish bowl. DB was the better of 2 poor options. As it was I had to pay out of my own pocket to get the flat we wanted. So don't try and tell me I couldv'e moved to Sai Kung and lived in a palace. You guys just don't get it do you?
I had to pay out of my own pocket to get the flat we wanted
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Buzzbox
Thanks buzzy for your rather simple and amusing lesson in socio-economics. Yes I know that 'most' people have to pay for accomodation. However 'most' people don't live in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Do they? Please stop me if you disagree! What I am saying is that I (we) were led to believe that I would be able to have a very comfortable existance living in DB with the housing allowance. The reality is far from the truth. The spin placed on this company as the "be all and end all" is absolutely misplaced. In my opinion they should be closer to the bottom of the career options list. This is part of the many reasons I have for leaving this circus. If you are happy settling for mediocrity then I feel sorry that you devalue yourself and your profession to such a degree. You can't blame a person for thinking they deserve better.
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H23,
Nothing wrong with not liking CX. Maybe you were "wronged" and maybe you're just an un-happy person...it doesn't really matter because either way you're not going to stay any longer.
What is wrong is you and 1-2 others attack those that say they do like it. CX is not the best job on earth but it's also not the worst!
You have obviously allowed bitterness to set in. This could happen anywhere doing anything if you don't learn how to be happy. Being happy doesn't endorse the job as being best or even great just good or OK. It's a state of mind that you will have to learn to adopt if you ever plan to be happy.
Cx has many problems but what you may forget is the opportunity they gave you. As a SO new-hire years ago, you didn't have many options because you didn't have any experience. OK, maybe you were left seat in some turbo-prop or even flying some late-night charter jet making minimum wage or less but CX was your break into the "Majors".
I hope you don't regret your decision but then you're the type that wouldn't admit it if you did.
Good luck and please work on your issues!
Nothing wrong with not liking CX. Maybe you were "wronged" and maybe you're just an un-happy person...it doesn't really matter because either way you're not going to stay any longer.
What is wrong is you and 1-2 others attack those that say they do like it. CX is not the best job on earth but it's also not the worst!
You have obviously allowed bitterness to set in. This could happen anywhere doing anything if you don't learn how to be happy. Being happy doesn't endorse the job as being best or even great just good or OK. It's a state of mind that you will have to learn to adopt if you ever plan to be happy.
Cx has many problems but what you may forget is the opportunity they gave you. As a SO new-hire years ago, you didn't have many options because you didn't have any experience. OK, maybe you were left seat in some turbo-prop or even flying some late-night charter jet making minimum wage or less but CX was your break into the "Majors".
I hope you don't regret your decision but then you're the type that wouldn't admit it if you did.
Good luck and please work on your issues!
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Cpdude
In case you haven't noticed the year is 2007. Cathay pacific does not offer opportunities these days.
In Europe in particular 250 hr pilots start in the right seat of a medium jet and get their commands with about 2500 3000 hrs total. Most of the guys applying for jobs these days have a choice of 2 or 3 to choose from. Don't know what it was like back in the day when you joined but right now there is no need for any of the above to join cx by choice and have to kiss ass for the next 10 years.
As far as experience is concerned, I 'd much rather be sitting next to someone that's been doing 2 or 3 sectors short haul a day for the last 5 years, than someone that's been sitting on his ass clicking the mic every sixty minutes and 8 hrs later log this as P1 time. Flying experience is what you did prior to long haul, Radar vector departures + reading the paper + radar vector ILS does not = any experience worth bragging about.
In case you haven't noticed the year is 2007. Cathay pacific does not offer opportunities these days.
In Europe in particular 250 hr pilots start in the right seat of a medium jet and get their commands with about 2500 3000 hrs total. Most of the guys applying for jobs these days have a choice of 2 or 3 to choose from. Don't know what it was like back in the day when you joined but right now there is no need for any of the above to join cx by choice and have to kiss ass for the next 10 years.
As far as experience is concerned, I 'd much rather be sitting next to someone that's been doing 2 or 3 sectors short haul a day for the last 5 years, than someone that's been sitting on his ass clicking the mic every sixty minutes and 8 hrs later log this as P1 time. Flying experience is what you did prior to long haul, Radar vector departures + reading the paper + radar vector ILS does not = any experience worth bragging about.
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Cpdude
On Day release from the truman show I see!
If you enjoy the job medium jet does make for a good and stable job these days. There are plenty of outfits out there offering both. There are also corporate jobs out there offering stable rosters and up to 20000USD a month.
"act stupid protection" yeah right, more like brown-nosing guarantee.
Since you don't appear to be let out very often here is what most aviators outside HK have known for while:
As far as standards and job security are concerned CX is no different than anyone else,
It is a fun job and not a pissing contest,
Unfortunately aviation does not promote on ability or merit so the only difference between you and the person next to you is length of service.
Sir Donald,
I ve been in HK a couple of years now and although the Brits have the reputation, it saddens me to say it is not them that moan the most nor are they the biggest pains in the arse to fly with.
On Day release from the truman show I see!
If you enjoy the job medium jet does make for a good and stable job these days. There are plenty of outfits out there offering both. There are also corporate jobs out there offering stable rosters and up to 20000USD a month.
"act stupid protection" yeah right, more like brown-nosing guarantee.
Since you don't appear to be let out very often here is what most aviators outside HK have known for while:
As far as standards and job security are concerned CX is no different than anyone else,
It is a fun job and not a pissing contest,
Unfortunately aviation does not promote on ability or merit so the only difference between you and the person next to you is length of service.
Sir Donald,
I ve been in HK a couple of years now and although the Brits have the reputation, it saddens me to say it is not them that moan the most nor are they the biggest pains in the arse to fly with.
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ZS-LMI
To answer your question YES, of course!
Remember in this world there are people who would go to heaven and complain about the harps and other people who would whistle in hell. Fortunately 99% of the people I fly with are whistlers!
This job (and life) is what you make of it. I really don't think it is anywhere near as bad as people make out. If you are professional, do you job, get on with it, you will do fine. You don't have to suck up, pretend to love it more than life itself or anything like that.
A whole lot of virgin blue pilots just did interviews with emirates recently....whats interesting about that? Well, a whole lot of emirates pilots are on the books to join virgin blue, but they are not recruiting at the moment.
The grass is always greener somewhere esle...its human nature.
How many people actually leave CX? Do we have 10% per annum? No...I actually don't know the exact figures but anecdotally I think it is around 1-2%(ignoring retirements) at most. Hardly a shocking figure indicative of a terrible job.
So, how bad is the job, the pollution, the pay etc if only 1 or 2% are leaving? And before the naysayers jump in, no I am not a management lackey, just a pragmatist!
ZS-LMI do the interviews, if you get offered the job, take it. Contrary to what hostile 23 says, it will not be the end of your life if it is a mistake. Unlike his life, you will probably live to 100...if it takes you a year or 2 to decide it was a mistake that still leaves you say 75 years of bliss(if you are say 23)...which will be more blissful for having tried cx and finding out it wasn't for you. Sometimes you have to try and fail to find out it wasn't for you....statistically it is likely you will find the job fine!
Remember in this world there are people who would go to heaven and complain about the harps and other people who would whistle in hell. Fortunately 99% of the people I fly with are whistlers!
This job (and life) is what you make of it. I really don't think it is anywhere near as bad as people make out. If you are professional, do you job, get on with it, you will do fine. You don't have to suck up, pretend to love it more than life itself or anything like that.
A whole lot of virgin blue pilots just did interviews with emirates recently....whats interesting about that? Well, a whole lot of emirates pilots are on the books to join virgin blue, but they are not recruiting at the moment.
The grass is always greener somewhere esle...its human nature.
How many people actually leave CX? Do we have 10% per annum? No...I actually don't know the exact figures but anecdotally I think it is around 1-2%(ignoring retirements) at most. Hardly a shocking figure indicative of a terrible job.
So, how bad is the job, the pollution, the pay etc if only 1 or 2% are leaving? And before the naysayers jump in, no I am not a management lackey, just a pragmatist!
ZS-LMI do the interviews, if you get offered the job, take it. Contrary to what hostile 23 says, it will not be the end of your life if it is a mistake. Unlike his life, you will probably live to 100...if it takes you a year or 2 to decide it was a mistake that still leaves you say 75 years of bliss(if you are say 23)...which will be more blissful for having tried cx and finding out it wasn't for you. Sometimes you have to try and fail to find out it wasn't for you....statistically it is likely you will find the job fine!
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Almost
Numero and Buzz:
You maths/sums are usually so much more acurate .
If (and I state categorically that this is based on rumour only) the rumours are true and 60 odd have left since January, then the current year's resignation rate would be closer to 3%, with 7 months to go !! Granted historically you are correct at 1-2%
So what percentage of resignations is considered an indication of good work place or bad ? Well I think that you have to take into account the opportunities and backgrounds of the pilot pool. In our case we hire from countries where the home grown aviation is poor i.e. Aus S.Africa and Canada (sorrry gents). That means that less of the work force will leave immediately when things get difficult. If we look at the European and American segment of the pilot pool then the percentage is very high indeed. In fact so high that it is IMHO an indicator of unhappy work force. It should also be an indicator that drinks and dinner in the ANC bar are not enough, and Swire need to start holding upper management accountable. This all coming on the eve of further rapid expansion. A time that should offer pilots great leaps in career expectations and yet people are leaving. Makes you wonder........
Buzz Box: I think you need to read how your answers play out in the thread. It certainly seemed to me that you were insinuating that the 49ers acted stupid.
You maths/sums are usually so much more acurate .
If (and I state categorically that this is based on rumour only) the rumours are true and 60 odd have left since January, then the current year's resignation rate would be closer to 3%, with 7 months to go !! Granted historically you are correct at 1-2%
So what percentage of resignations is considered an indication of good work place or bad ? Well I think that you have to take into account the opportunities and backgrounds of the pilot pool. In our case we hire from countries where the home grown aviation is poor i.e. Aus S.Africa and Canada (sorrry gents). That means that less of the work force will leave immediately when things get difficult. If we look at the European and American segment of the pilot pool then the percentage is very high indeed. In fact so high that it is IMHO an indicator of unhappy work force. It should also be an indicator that drinks and dinner in the ANC bar are not enough, and Swire need to start holding upper management accountable. This all coming on the eve of further rapid expansion. A time that should offer pilots great leaps in career expectations and yet people are leaving. Makes you wonder........
Buzz Box: I think you need to read how your answers play out in the thread. It certainly seemed to me that you were insinuating that the 49ers acted stupid.
Hostile: Friend, you must have had one extremely unhappy childhood.
5G: Actually, I did not say that EVERY 49er 'acted stupid', as implied by Jizzmonkey. I do, however, know that SOME of the 49ers 'acted stupid' at a time when tempers were hot on both sides. I don't agree with the company's actions in terminating their contracts, but what did these guys expect?
5G: Actually, I did not say that EVERY 49er 'acted stupid', as implied by Jizzmonkey. I do, however, know that SOME of the 49ers 'acted stupid' at a time when tempers were hot on both sides. I don't agree with the company's actions in terminating their contracts, but what did these guys expect?
Last edited by BuzzBox; 21st May 2007 at 13:18.
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Five Green
As I said, I have no empirical evidence...but I most definitely do not take into account what I read on this site;-)
I know many of our NA brethren are talking about leaving but we will see how many actually leave.
You are correct in your appraisal...it is the europeans and north americans who are the indicators or our industrial happiness. I have spoken to many NA guys recently since I have joined the seniorS fleet and i get the feeling that the attraction of CX is that it is a stable career airline...a little different from the experiences for those from northwest etc.
I don't think 1-2% leaving a year is a problem(20-40). There are wife/ex wife issues, health issues, education issues, etc etc. If we have had upwards of 60 so far then that is 3% already...so maybe 7-8% for the year at that rate! Maybe we will see some serious progress in pay talks!
Hostile, you do your argument no benefit by insulting and slandering. You have a legitimate case...argue it...don't take it personally...don't make it personal.
As I said, I have no empirical evidence...but I most definitely do not take into account what I read on this site;-)
I know many of our NA brethren are talking about leaving but we will see how many actually leave.
You are correct in your appraisal...it is the europeans and north americans who are the indicators or our industrial happiness. I have spoken to many NA guys recently since I have joined the seniorS fleet and i get the feeling that the attraction of CX is that it is a stable career airline...a little different from the experiences for those from northwest etc.
I don't think 1-2% leaving a year is a problem(20-40). There are wife/ex wife issues, health issues, education issues, etc etc. If we have had upwards of 60 so far then that is 3% already...so maybe 7-8% for the year at that rate! Maybe we will see some serious progress in pay talks!
Hostile, you do your argument no benefit by insulting and slandering. You have a legitimate case...argue it...don't take it personally...don't make it personal.
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ZS-LMI
Hey ZS-LMI,
Sorry that your thread got ruined by a few who just seems to hate CX like no others and they can't seem to understand why some of us do enjoy working in CX.
I just want to let you know that I am happy at CX. There's the occassion where the management decision could have been better but overall it is a good experience and good money. Most of the people that I've met in the company take aviaition seriously and seems to enjoy their lifestyle at CX. (If you want a good roaster, just don't be a check and trainer, I saw some of their roaster and it can get quite busy). Ultimately, it depends on how you make of it with regard to your CX experience. Good luck in your interview.
bus
Sorry that your thread got ruined by a few who just seems to hate CX like no others and they can't seem to understand why some of us do enjoy working in CX.
I just want to let you know that I am happy at CX. There's the occassion where the management decision could have been better but overall it is a good experience and good money. Most of the people that I've met in the company take aviaition seriously and seems to enjoy their lifestyle at CX. (If you want a good roaster, just don't be a check and trainer, I saw some of their roaster and it can get quite busy). Ultimately, it depends on how you make of it with regard to your CX experience. Good luck in your interview.
bus
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ZS-LMI
Hi ZS-LMI, as above, sorry your thread has been hijacked by the squabbling kids..!
I am leaving CX cos I am fed up of boring boring 744 longhaul and I see my future life away from HK back at my home base. If I wanted to stay in HK on a 777 roster (work hard but have job satisfaction) I would stay and actually enjoy CX.
Go for the interview, decide if you want to stay in HK (great place if its for you) and try and get a 777 posting. (we've got 14 or so coming so there should be a place for you).
PM if you want any further info.
Don't worry about the lil'babies squabbling, they didn't get fed this morning..
JJB
I am leaving CX cos I am fed up of boring boring 744 longhaul and I see my future life away from HK back at my home base. If I wanted to stay in HK on a 777 roster (work hard but have job satisfaction) I would stay and actually enjoy CX.
Go for the interview, decide if you want to stay in HK (great place if its for you) and try and get a 777 posting. (we've got 14 or so coming so there should be a place for you).
PM if you want any further info.
Don't worry about the lil'babies squabbling, they didn't get fed this morning..
JJB
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ZS-LMI
Good luck at the interview. I'm a NA based freight FO and am really enjoying Cathay. Not perfect, but WAY better than my last outfit. NA based freight guys are generally a great group of people to fly with, friendly and always willing to help out. I've had good experiences (so far) with check and training. Can't speak for other operations or bases, but I like where I am. Give it a shot and make your own decision.
Bell
Good luck at the interview. I'm a NA based freight FO and am really enjoying Cathay. Not perfect, but WAY better than my last outfit. NA based freight guys are generally a great group of people to fly with, friendly and always willing to help out. I've had good experiences (so far) with check and training. Can't speak for other operations or bases, but I like where I am. Give it a shot and make your own decision.
Bell
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This is a bit off track but I was curious why Cathay initial training is so long compared to North American airline training? Am I to understand that it is upwards of 6 months from Indoc to completion of IOE? Doesn't that cost Cathay an incredible amount of money? How do they stay competitive with training costs so high? Does Cathay want you to know how to build the airplane?
Just a bit curious.
Just a bit curious.
