Tales from Kai Tak
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I forgot to mention that the previous extract was from Vette's book.
But it might explain why there were so few accidents in the 50 years that Kai Tak was used. Everyone entered the fray completely psyched-up for the challenge.
But it might explain why there were so few accidents in the 50 years that Kai Tak was used. Everyone entered the fray completely psyched-up for the challenge.
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Hi Folks
The link to the radio documentary audio on the Radio Clyde website no longer works, so I've made it available to other websites to host and my offer to PPrune to host it still stands!
The best hosting for the show is currently at The Aviator - 9 Dragons Kai Tak website
Well worth checking out the Kai Tak Reloaded and the Enter the 9 Dragons Videos.
The Aviator's home page is here and the direct link to the audio is here
A Google search for Tales from Kai Tak may reveal other hostings.
The link to the radio documentary audio on the Radio Clyde website no longer works, so I've made it available to other websites to host and my offer to PPrune to host it still stands!
The best hosting for the show is currently at The Aviator - 9 Dragons Kai Tak website
Well worth checking out the Kai Tak Reloaded and the Enter the 9 Dragons Videos.
The Aviator's home page is here and the direct link to the audio is here
A Google search for Tales from Kai Tak may reveal other hostings.
Last edited by John MacCalman; 10th Jan 2009 at 11:17. Reason: Additional Info
Ampan, re your extract from Vette's book about the old harbour circuit I witnessed a REVERSE harbour circuit flown by a PAL DC8 in the early 70's (probably the only one by a transport jet).
The morning PAL flight from Manila made a 31 ILS approach but had to make a late go-around due to the preceeding aircraft being slow to clear the runway. PAL asked ATC for permission to make a reverse harbour circuit which was granted after some hesitation. I went out to watch and saw the PAL DC8 flying up the harbour (west to east) close to the HK Island hills then making a descending steep left turn around Quarry Bay and landing on 31. The landing was rather firm thumping the left main gear on first not being able to get the wings level before touchdown. Tower requested the crew to remain at the aircraft as ATC wanted to talk to them. Grey haired old Filipino Captain came out smiling.
The morning PAL flight from Manila made a 31 ILS approach but had to make a late go-around due to the preceeding aircraft being slow to clear the runway. PAL asked ATC for permission to make a reverse harbour circuit which was granted after some hesitation. I went out to watch and saw the PAL DC8 flying up the harbour (west to east) close to the HK Island hills then making a descending steep left turn around Quarry Bay and landing on 31. The landing was rather firm thumping the left main gear on first not being able to get the wings level before touchdown. Tower requested the crew to remain at the aircraft as ATC wanted to talk to them. Grey haired old Filipino Captain came out smiling.
CV880
Maybe you also caught the CV880 doing a 13 departure..inside Kwun Tong and back on 13.
Pappy McBride (an old Delta guy brought out to show what the a/c could do) did it I am reliably told. Circa around 1968.
Maybe you also caught the CV880 doing a 13 departure..inside Kwun Tong and back on 13.
Pappy McBride (an old Delta guy brought out to show what the a/c could do) did it I am reliably told. Circa around 1968.
Last edited by VR-HFX; 13th Jan 2009 at 22:17.
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Government go-ahead for HK$103bln Kai Tak plan
The government has unveiled details of its long-awaited plan to develop the Kai Tak site in Kowloon. It will be built in three phases - at a total cost of HK103-billion. But the entire project is not scheduled for completion until 2021. The opening phase will see the construction of new public housing, government offices and the first berth of a new cruise terminal. One of the last parts to be built will be a 45,000 seat sports stadium. The government will seek an initial HK$3.3 billion in funding in the second quarter of this year.
Govt go-ahead for HK$103bln Kai Tak plan
HFX,
Before my time. I joined the HK aviation scene in early '69 but did hear tales of a CX CV880 over Choi Hung but seem to recall this was a training incident (at least as told to me). I do not recall hearing of the event you describe although it was all a long time ago now.
I also witnessed a "near thing" in the pre IGS days when an MSA 737 missed the turn at the checker board in a thunderstorm at night. Fortunately the tower controller saw the landing lights heading toward Choi Hung and called "overshoot and turn right immediately" in a very urgent tone. Hearing that transmission, I stepped out into the rain to see what was going on and had the 737 go right over me at bay 5.
The MSA crew elected a tailwind ILS on 31 for their next approach.
I heard later the checker board lights had fused in the thunderstorm.
Before my time. I joined the HK aviation scene in early '69 but did hear tales of a CX CV880 over Choi Hung but seem to recall this was a training incident (at least as told to me). I do not recall hearing of the event you describe although it was all a long time ago now.
I also witnessed a "near thing" in the pre IGS days when an MSA 737 missed the turn at the checker board in a thunderstorm at night. Fortunately the tower controller saw the landing lights heading toward Choi Hung and called "overshoot and turn right immediately" in a very urgent tone. Hearing that transmission, I stepped out into the rain to see what was going on and had the 737 go right over me at bay 5.
The MSA crew elected a tailwind ILS on 31 for their next approach.
I heard later the checker board lights had fused in the thunderstorm.
CV880
Yes it was a training flight I am relaibly informed.
There was also the Air India 707 that basically ended up in Shatin Valley in the mid-60's, exiting on the Clearwater Bay non existent SID! Very lucky they didn't end up like that RAF Hunter that went into Lion Rock in the early 60's.
Cheers
Yes it was a training flight I am relaibly informed.
There was also the Air India 707 that basically ended up in Shatin Valley in the mid-60's, exiting on the Clearwater Bay non existent SID! Very lucky they didn't end up like that RAF Hunter that went into Lion Rock in the early 60's.
Cheers
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Technology moves on and I've now managed to upload the original radio documentary Tales from Kai Tak to a public folder on Dropbox.
This is the link in case the one above doesn't work.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25622044/Tal...%20%281%29.mp3
This is the link in case the one above doesn't work.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25622044/Tal...%20%281%29.mp3
Interesting and nostalgic stuff!
For my part, I wonder if the "chequerboard" part of the IGS/ CC approach isn't overly hyped. In a decade operating B747, L1011 and Airbus into Kai Tak, the the Chequerboard was merely a sideshow to proceedings.
The basis for this observation is a twofold relationship:
1. You tend to go where you look [Don't look at the C/Board!!]
2. You usually find it is nice to look where you are going.[Follow the visual cues to the runway]
Therefore, I found it more relevent to fly down the Loc and Glideslope until "visual" [not necessarily or usually the C/Board] and then follow my desired track over the ground:
If visual early, most found it easier to sidestep left, adjust rate of descent for the longer ground track and enjoy the benefits of intercepting the RWY 13 extended centreline earlier. [Nice in a typhoon!]. If visual at minima, you pretty much needed to follow the lead in lights - maybe all you could see! Tricky in the SW monsoon....
This is not meant as a treatise on how to fly the IGS,
such a worthy document would flow to many pages! Suffice to say, much time was spent at many a bar arguing the pros and cons.
Nor would I wish to denigrate the role played by the beloved chequerboard! It would be enlightening to hear the opinion from older hands, who may have found the C/board more relevent. For me, there were other features that I felt more important, eg the Magistracy and the "shed" on the Kowloon city sports oval - to name but a couple.
For my part, I wonder if the "chequerboard" part of the IGS/ CC approach isn't overly hyped. In a decade operating B747, L1011 and Airbus into Kai Tak, the the Chequerboard was merely a sideshow to proceedings.
The basis for this observation is a twofold relationship:
1. You tend to go where you look [Don't look at the C/Board!!]
2. You usually find it is nice to look where you are going.[Follow the visual cues to the runway]
Therefore, I found it more relevent to fly down the Loc and Glideslope until "visual" [not necessarily or usually the C/Board] and then follow my desired track over the ground:
If visual early, most found it easier to sidestep left, adjust rate of descent for the longer ground track and enjoy the benefits of intercepting the RWY 13 extended centreline earlier. [Nice in a typhoon!]. If visual at minima, you pretty much needed to follow the lead in lights - maybe all you could see! Tricky in the SW monsoon....
This is not meant as a treatise on how to fly the IGS,
such a worthy document would flow to many pages! Suffice to say, much time was spent at many a bar arguing the pros and cons.Nor would I wish to denigrate the role played by the beloved chequerboard! It would be enlightening to hear the opinion from older hands, who may have found the C/board more relevent. For me, there were other features that I felt more important, eg the Magistracy and the "shed" on the Kowloon city sports oval - to name but a couple.
Last edited by spleener; 11th Apr 2011 at 14:23. Reason: Forgot the 'bus...
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Chequerboard Location
Here is the centamap link for the exact location. If you are on the upper tennis courts at Kowloon Tsai Park then it is right above you. A little faded & worn but still recognisable.
¤¤*ì¦a¹Ï www.CentaMap.com
¤¤*ì¦a¹Ï www.CentaMap.com
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Well chaps - you want some Kai Tak nostalgia check this out:
Too bad it wasn't a CX Convair but Swissair will have to do. looks like a CC NDB letdown.
And look at that Harbour water - looks positively inviting and the vis!........ I could go on
Too bad it wasn't a CX Convair but Swissair will have to do. looks like a CC NDB letdown.
And look at that Harbour water - looks positively inviting and the vis!........ I could go on
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For CV990 read CV880.
Master Caution;
Best recorded RW13 approach I have ever seen. Certainly a feast of memories there and even though it was a CV990 it was a CV880 for me . Great to see those familiar friendly sights again, Cheung Chau, Green Island, Stonecutters, School Buildings, the running track on the centre of the curve and those apartments on short final that always seemed to want to get in the way of the right wing tip but never did. A pleasure to watch the gear lever put to down, to see the truck positioner sending its message, to note the three oblong green undercarriage lights and to recall that satisfying feeling of those four thrust levers that somehow seemed to fit comfortably in the palm of the hand. Also nice to look once again at the approaching touchdown point and as the wings roll level to see the runway centre line plant its self exactly in the middle of the windscreen.
Icing on the cake would have to be that lovely young lady at the foot of the
steps wearing a gorgeous clinging cheongsam. Empires have been overthrown for such. When Antoine De-Saint Exupery said "memories are hidden wealth " he was not wrong. Thanks for putting it up.
Prince of Dzun.
Best recorded RW13 approach I have ever seen. Certainly a feast of memories there and even though it was a CV990 it was a CV880 for me . Great to see those familiar friendly sights again, Cheung Chau, Green Island, Stonecutters, School Buildings, the running track on the centre of the curve and those apartments on short final that always seemed to want to get in the way of the right wing tip but never did. A pleasure to watch the gear lever put to down, to see the truck positioner sending its message, to note the three oblong green undercarriage lights and to recall that satisfying feeling of those four thrust levers that somehow seemed to fit comfortably in the palm of the hand. Also nice to look once again at the approaching touchdown point and as the wings roll level to see the runway centre line plant its self exactly in the middle of the windscreen.
Icing on the cake would have to be that lovely young lady at the foot of the
steps wearing a gorgeous clinging cheongsam. Empires have been overthrown for such. When Antoine De-Saint Exupery said "memories are hidden wealth " he was not wrong. Thanks for putting it up.
Prince of Dzun.
I saw the chequerboard last week (before the smog arrived) on a Lakes departure. It looks a bit faded. As a huge part of HKG aviation history, perhaps it should be renovated?
At the risk of being overly pedantic the cabin shots in the Swissair CV990 video are clearly of an early model DC8 (pre -60 series). The seats and window curtains are a clear give away. The exterior views and cockpit shots are however of a CV990. I witnessed a Swissair CV990 go around on rwy 13 very early in my HKG career. Presumably a bit fast and high over Kowloon City just as I was leaving Kai Tak and a nice pull up with large wing tip vortices following the aircraft over HK Island on a lovely sunny afternoon. Someone who had flown both the CV880 and 990 once told me the 990 was quite difficult to land compared to the 880.
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North Star Over my Shoulder:
On page 390 of his autobiography " North Star Over my Shoulder a Flying Life " TWA Captain Bob Buck has a few words to say about RW13 Kai Tak. He mentions Stonecutters, the Chequerboard, the tight turn over apartments with washing drying on the balconies and the satisfaction of rolling level straight down the centreline. He goes on to say-- Quote " after a long boring flight from Bangkok this stired the blood and got you up on the edge of the seat- careful but barnstorming with a Boeing 707 having old style fun. That's all gone now, with a new airport built away from these problems, just another dull airport with proper, boring approaches. But there's a brotherhood of pilots who flew in and out of Kai Tak, and when any of us come together there's lots of talk, tales and laughter." Unquote.
It's a truly good description of landing on RW 13 Kai Tak but it was necessary to actualy do it to really understand just how special it all was. Those who did it on a daily basis would know about this.
O.P.
It's a truly good description of landing on RW 13 Kai Tak but it was necessary to actualy do it to really understand just how special it all was. Those who did it on a daily basis would know about this.
O.P.
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Those who did it on a daily basis
Ah, yes the good old days. Followed by a few beers in the Cathay Club (the Gay Bar doesn't deserve to be compared in the same breath) and sometimes a few more afterwards in the Aviation Club. Not forgetting the Police Mess across the road.