CX Director Flight Ops: "Young pilots don't want pensions or medical care"
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Why so many americans now?
About 10 percent of the carrier's 2,100 pilots are Americans, most of whom joined the airline during the past three to four years.
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Curious....the company's DEFO proposal had much lower USAB salaries and now they are hiring so many from the star spangled banner land! I bet new joiners are happy the DEFO proposal was voted down!
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Curious....the company's DEFO proposal had much lower USAB salaries and now they are hiring so many from the star spangled banner land! I bet new joiners are happy the DEFO proposal was voted down!
I don't believe CX is hiring DEFO Pax to NA. The only DEFO for NA is on the Freighter. With the proposed salary with DEFO, it was actually a pay-rise for Freighter pilots and a pay-cut for Pax pilots. Considering most NA pilots are short or shorter term employees, many would never see the Pax side of the operation.
Yup, they now come from a regional background and leave 2-4 years later with some big-stuff experience. That's what happens when you no longer sell yourself as a career airline.
You need to give big cash, big perks or a balance of the two and CX does neither any longer.
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How is CX not presenting itself as a career airline? The loss of health and pension don't seem like a big loss to a lot of pilots these days. As someone who dealt with the pension disaster at United Airlines first-hand, I personally wouldn't trust any pension I was promised from any company. Even though the deal at CX isn't as sweet as it used to be, it still sounds great to most of us Americans who are disillusioned with our own major carriers. My big worry with the company these days is the training and culture, not the benefits.
Last edited by thepotato232; 16th Feb 2007 at 05:12.
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Loss of Health and Pension
WE haven't lost them yet.
Stop carrying on as if we are going to. This could easily be a line thrown out into the wind to see what reaction it gets.
When many carriers are now starting to show signs of struggling to get good candidates, how about you stop lowering our conditions by inference.
If you want to give away some conditions you can have that choice "after" you join the company. Until then back off.
Note - if you have the luxury of joining through a basing company, you can take control of your pension contributions from day one. You can put them into whatever fund you like. ie not the company fund. Hence you might actually be interested in our pension scheme "that you want to give away"
Stop carrying on as if we are going to. This could easily be a line thrown out into the wind to see what reaction it gets.
When many carriers are now starting to show signs of struggling to get good candidates, how about you stop lowering our conditions by inference.
If you want to give away some conditions you can have that choice "after" you join the company. Until then back off.
Note - if you have the luxury of joining through a basing company, you can take control of your pension contributions from day one. You can put them into whatever fund you like. ie not the company fund. Hence you might actually be interested in our pension scheme "that you want to give away"
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Fair enough, sorry about that. Grand-scale pension funds just seem like kind of a lost cause at the companies I've seen. Replacing them with an employee-directed retirement fund could save everyone money in the long run. That said, this is an issue for current pilots, and your point about inference is well taken. I didn't really know how far talk of these concessions had progressed.
Last edited by thepotato232; 16th Feb 2007 at 05:44.
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thepotato232 stated:
The loss of health and pension don't seem like a big loss to a lot of pilots these days
The loss of health and pension don't seem like a big loss to a lot of pilots these days
Am I wrong? Where is The Management? I think that we might have a potential candidate that could save The Company a small fortune, whilst starting a positive new chapter in COS negotiations.
Good on you Mr Potatohead, there is certainly a place in CX for you.
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I'm 25 and in the pool at CX.....I care greatly about Medical and Pensions....in fact one of the biggest pluses benefit wise is not having to pay anything for medical.....at my current company I pay $90US/mo just for me.....the medical thing is huge......Now, as for pensions.....most of us in the US are now trained to think that we will never get one.....Do I want one, YES! Another one of CX's selling points is the 15.5% towards the provident fund or take it as cash and lose it on your own(i think only based pilots can do that)....i couldn't care less what airplane I fly. When the cockpit door is closed, you can't tell how big the plane is anyway.
Gimme adequate compensation for my family and I'll fly a 172.
Gimme adequate compensation for my family and I'll fly a 172.
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I think about pension and medical all of the time, actually. The reason medical and pensions aren't a big deal for me is that my family is approaching bankruptcy due to the pension disaster at United Airlines. The union and management butted heads constantly on those two points until eventually, management realized it would be far better to file bankruptcy and throw everything out the window, screwing their outgoing pilots on a grand scale. All it takes is proof of an insurmountable negative cashflow, something that's easy to "prove" with like-minded judges at the helm. While they were at it, they tossed the medical bennies, too. Given the choice, a self-managed retirement fund backed in part by the company is likely to be far more secure than a classic pension in the future, free from any manager's grubby hands. Granted, my experience is pretty skewed, but by no means unique. I'm not trying to lower the bar for new pilots, I just don't want to spend decades paying into a pension I've lost faith in seeing.
But as I said, this is an issue for current pilots who already have a stake in the issue. Just my unwelcome two cents...
But as I said, this is an issue for current pilots who already have a stake in the issue. Just my unwelcome two cents...
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Us antipodeans call the CX 'pension' a 'defined contribution provident fund'. The old CX, QF, BA and many US carriers had "defined benefit" pension funds that relied on the solvency of the employer to fund the payouts. So yes there is an advantage to defined contribution as the funds are protected via trustee setup...no enron disasters likely!
A warning on medical for all new joiners. The medical coverage for you is fine...but should you have any dependants, they are covered in hkg and country of joining only. But additionally, there are monetary limits to how much CX will pay for rooms, operations etc for your dependants. A friend of mine's wife had to have an urgent operation. There was no opportunity to go to his home country to have the operation. It cost him $50,000HKD out of his pocket as that is how much it exceeded the CX limit by. He now pays about $4,000HKD ($500USD) per month for private health cover in hkg just to cover his family.
I guess the policy suggests that CX wants you, but don't bring anyone else!
A warning on medical for all new joiners. The medical coverage for you is fine...but should you have any dependants, they are covered in hkg and country of joining only. But additionally, there are monetary limits to how much CX will pay for rooms, operations etc for your dependants. A friend of mine's wife had to have an urgent operation. There was no opportunity to go to his home country to have the operation. It cost him $50,000HKD out of his pocket as that is how much it exceeded the CX limit by. He now pays about $4,000HKD ($500USD) per month for private health cover in hkg just to cover his family.
I guess the policy suggests that CX wants you, but don't bring anyone else!
