Ka A330s to Cx

[bitethebullet]

Seems the plan to operate to Australia is back on the cards, but who will do it? Negotiations by Cathay to receive 3 of Dragonair's A330 HWH/I/J is underway, but the negotiation is down to who will operate them, and wether in Cx or Ka colors. Obvious choice is for Cx to re-paint them and operate them. The aircraft are in long haul config and would be an obvious addition the the Cx 330 fleet. However, with Ka permanently
basing 3 A330s for wet lease to Air China, where does this leave the excess of 30+ ka pilots?

Ka commands now have ground to a halt, so maybe this is more fire in this than smoke?

[gyro]

Would seem a waste for CX to spend roughly 10 billion to strip KA of its fleet... Another view of your bush beating is that KA has rights to HKG-SYD, maybe CX cannot get additional slots and can therefore use KA to increase the "company" capacity on the route. Dunno.

[geh065]

Not sure CX would be happy flying longhaul(ish) with the KA interior. I would have thought they would spend the money bringing the product to CX standards thereby stripping the interior anyway, regardless of the current config they are in.

Even if they join CX, where are they going to find the crews?

[Elroy Jettson]

Hmmmm, thats a tough one. CX management have 2 crewing choices. option 1, or option 1 + 15%. But hey, I could be wrong, CX may be the only airline management team on earth looking for ways to increase their crewing costs by a minimum of 15%. If that is the case, I know of this awesome bridge coming up for sale, could do you a great deal on it! Honest!

[gyro]

Elroy, not sure of the accuracy of +15%, but come the take over, KA House will essentially be gutted with most admin functions being absorbed into existing CX infrastructure. This will essentially nulify any cost difference

I agree that CX will find it hard to keep their hands off 3 internationly configured A/C, but for me, it makes no sense to displace 30 drivers only to have to train 30. Particularly given CX's recent training record! Twould seem a bridge too far?

[geh065]

I am sure Cx would love to suddenly have 30 new drivers, but how would you integrate them? Where on the seniority list? pay them what? How do you choose which 30 get to go? All very complicated and potentiall very thorny issues ala Air Canada/Canadian.

[Cpt. Underpants]

Simple - publish a projected integrated seniority list and then ask for 30 volunteers for the 330. Integrate as published.

[clear.right]

Can S/Os volunteer?

[CAPT146]

I would have thought it would be easier to send 3 CX A330s to KA instead of the other way around.............. Watch this space.

Hey, this is a rumour network after all!

Besides KA have the rights, so it has to be a KA service not a CX service. All that means is a KAxxx flt no. And KA have 3 long haul A/C ready to go. If they can get out of the CA wet lease that is.

[Elroy Jettson]

Or just have them painted in CX colours, and have the cheaper crews fly them under a wet lease agreement. Just like the Australian A/Ls Qantas agreement. KA are already operating wet lease agreements for other airlines in the local industry, why wont KA management put in a bid to do the CX flying? Anything stopping them?? Is there anything stopping jetstar or Australian Airlines doing Qantas mainline flying? No.Wont be anything stopping it happening in the harbour either.

CX management will cry they cant afford to free up any pilots from CX, they dont have enough as it is, they may even have to hire direct entry FOs off the street, or let KA do it. The training department is over stretched as it is. Sound familiar?

The only thing that might stop it would be pilot solidarity, but as that has only ever happened once, when the Wright Brothers decided to work together, and hasn't been seen in our industry since. The fight is over before the first shot was ever fired.

Enjoy your Aussie overnights KA, brush up on your ETOPS.

[junior_man]

Do you always wish to be the "cheaper crews"?
Short term gain for long term lower pay?
Remember, be careful what you wish for in life.

[6-String]

Except for Cpt. Underpants, I was unable to find a sensible comment in the above postings. Seems it's all the usual bullsh!t forecasters that inevitably head for a new subject once the old one wears thin. Nothing but smoke and mirrors. vbmenu_register("postmenu_2723653", true);

[Scooter Rassmussin]

Plenty of middle east pilots already endorsed would love to steal your flying for the same salary......................

[Elroy Jettson]

Originally Posted by junior_man

Do you always wish to be the "cheaper crews"?.

Quite sure the KA crews arent wishing they were cheaper than CX, its just a fact that they are cheaper. Not sure what your point is. Do you work for some magical organisation that lets you set your own salary? No? Neither do they.

[Kitsune]

The fallacy contained within Cpt Underpants post is that there needs to be an integrated seniority list...as the Screaming Skull said, this is a TAKEOVER not a merger........

[Cpt. Underpants]

Yes, it is a takeover, but why would all that experience (Capt's and F/O's) in Dragonair be tossed aside when what Cathay desperately needs is growth capability?

In case you haven't noticed, our training machine is at full chat, slots on all sims are almost impossible to get - do you REALLY feel that semi-annual sim visits are adequate? - and (specifically) command trainees are failing at an alarming rate?

At the end of the day, satisfying the needs of the many is the priority, not pandering to the ego-driven few. I do not want to see another Air Canada/Canadian or American Airlines/TWA stuff up in our seniority, thank you very much...

[Kitsune]

Exactly...so no merging of the lists, a la BOAC/BEA?

[330dryver]

I’m a bit confused about the Dragonair “cheaper crews”thing. From talking to Cathay mates it appears the Total “package” (i.e. cost to airline) is about the same. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

In a recent DPA meeting we discussed our present package verses what the company was offering to crew the 744F. The presented figures were based on a first year B scale Captain with 1.5 kids (don’t ask me?), in House Purchase Scheme and Oz domicile (travel fund). Total Package USD280, 000. I would be interested how this stakes up against Cathay.

It is true Dragon base salary is 10% -15% lower. But Dragon gets over time above 75 hrs and double time above 80 hrs. While Cathay don’t get overtime until 84 hrs. Buy my calculation this would give Dragon Guy more if they both flew 84 hrs!

Dragon doesn’t get a decent super scheme like Cathay, but they do get a 15% of salary payment each year on the anniversary of joining. And also the 13th month payment is guaranteed buy the COS.

The housing is fixed for Dragonair at 64000rent/44000purchase. While Cathay purchase is higher at the moment it could also be lower in the future if interest rates drop.

All Dragon B scalers get a travel fund that can be worth any thing from HKD50,000 to 150,000 a year depending on domicile and the number of kids.

I’m not being nit picky; I just want to know the facts. Is there a big difference somewhere I’m not aware of or are we about the same?

[Team America]

and (specifically) command trainees are failing at an alarming rate?

Capt Underpants, I think the only fleet with problems in that department is the Airbus.

If the T & C department (Airbus) took a look at what they might be doing wrong and did something about it, the expansion would truck along quite nicely