Upcoming elections
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Upcoming elections
I see that if full members would like to have reduced membership fees, we will have to surrender the rejoining fee for all who has quit the Association since 2001.
The Association would like these mostly Senior Pilots to rejoin, so that Age 60 and DEFO’s can be voted in. So much for looking out for the better interests of your full members.
The rule change on passing a vote is just as unscrupulous.
If you do not want age 60 on reduced conditions or DEFO’s on reduced pay and conditions, I would urge all to vote against on these important matters.
The Association would like these mostly Senior Pilots to rejoin, so that Age 60 and DEFO’s can be voted in. So much for looking out for the better interests of your full members.
The rule change on passing a vote is just as unscrupulous.
If you do not want age 60 on reduced conditions or DEFO’s on reduced pay and conditions, I would urge all to vote against on these important matters.
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what???
Mr Bloggs what are you saying...we need those senior guys in the union to help fight for better r&r, as we know they will lead from the front as they have done before!!!! 
Where are all the new B-scale Captains??? We need those guys in the comittee, time to look after the yung ens!!!
Where are all the new B-scale Captains??? We need those guys in the comittee, time to look after the yung ens!!!
Actually Bloggs most of the quitters, in actual numbers, were B scalers. The more that rejoin the less likely that A-scalers will affect any vote taken!!
Get your facts right and you wouldn't have to get so worked up.
Get your facts right and you wouldn't have to get so worked up.
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Well the quitter will lead like they have lead in the past, and have no place here. Our Senior Pilots would like very much to rejoin at reduced cost and sell our yung ens. They are doing this as we speak.
Just reread my post, did not mention anything about A or B scale, just quitters. They only have their own interests at heart. They come from every scale.
I am sure most Senior Pilots will rejoin and with the new rule for passing a vote, yes they may influence the outcome as with the more junior quitters.
If the quitters wish to rejoin the Association, there are rules in place for them to rejoin, same as there are rules for the company to hire DEFO’s and age 60.
Just reread my post, did not mention anything about A or B scale, just quitters. They only have their own interests at heart. They come from every scale.
I am sure most Senior Pilots will rejoin and with the new rule for passing a vote, yes they may influence the outcome as with the more junior quitters.
If the quitters wish to rejoin the Association, there are rules in place for them to rejoin, same as there are rules for the company to hire DEFO’s and age 60.
My apologies Kenfoggo, I should have used quotation marks to show where it came from. The Gen Sec is an employee of the AOA and as such now represents the current President and GC, I very much doubt you would get that response ever again.
Bloggs, I stand corrected you didn't say A or B I inferred it from your post.
Please explain to me how the proposed rule change for voting will be less democratic. How is it unscrupulous?
If people wish to have an input into anything, and specifically the RP04 agreement, they will need to be an AOA member.
Bloggs, I stand corrected you didn't say A or B I inferred it from your post.
Please explain to me how the proposed rule change for voting will be less democratic. How is it unscrupulous?
If people wish to have an input into anything, and specifically the RP04 agreement, they will need to be an AOA member.
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Originally Posted by BusyB
If people wish to have an input into anything, and specifically the RP04 agreement, they will need to be an AOA member.
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Guys quit for a number of reasons, it was at a pretty nasty time for everyone involved (some more than others) but I would like to think that with all that is ahead of us at CX, we all should forgive and move on to getting a high membership back in the AOA.
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Membership
If we in the AOA want to increase membership, it is as simple as LOOKING AFTER THE CURRENT MEMBERS! I keep seeing all this discussion of how to get quitters to rejoin. All the while there is less and less talk of whats in the best interest of the full membership because we focus on too many minor issues. There are about 280 S/O's, in the AOA, who stand to have a huge(millions) financial penalty if DEFO's go through....yet this is barely discussed. Will they stay in the AOA if we don't protect them? Will new joining S/O's join the AOA if they see that S/O interests are not on the AOA's agenda? Not Likely. This would cripple membership numbers now and for the next 30 years as these are the longest term members we can get! Dispite this we are talking about trying to get back a small number of rejoiners. Many of the "quitters"( and I say "quitters" with no animosity or contempt
) Wont rejoin because of issues OTHER than money. They were unhappy with the AOA not looking after their interests. I agree generally that the more members we have the better, but if quitters are allowed back with no financal retribution, how will those who stayed and carried the financial burden react? Will they stay?
Everyone will have their career progression slowed if age 60 goes through....yet we quibble about rejoiners. RP04 looms ahead......and we talk about how to get a few guys to come back into the fold. DEFO's...No pay rise in how many years......we talk about rejoiners. without question there will be age 60 and DEFO's. The issue is what we are going to get in order to have a fair balance. Nobody seems to be discussing this however. If it is being discussed, I am not hearing any updates from the AOA.
If we want people in the AOA, we need to make it an organization where it's benefit is obvious to it's membership. By focusing on important issues and protecting the interests of the membership, we can do just that. The company is notorious for playing one group of pilots against another. A vs. B scale, Based vs Hong Kong. Freight vs Pax. They appeal to one group and cut another's CofS. We have to start looking at things as a single group!
If we build it....they will join.
) Wont rejoin because of issues OTHER than money. They were unhappy with the AOA not looking after their interests. I agree generally that the more members we have the better, but if quitters are allowed back with no financal retribution, how will those who stayed and carried the financial burden react? Will they stay? Everyone will have their career progression slowed if age 60 goes through....yet we quibble about rejoiners. RP04 looms ahead......and we talk about how to get a few guys to come back into the fold. DEFO's...No pay rise in how many years......we talk about rejoiners. without question there will be age 60 and DEFO's. The issue is what we are going to get in order to have a fair balance. Nobody seems to be discussing this however. If it is being discussed, I am not hearing any updates from the AOA.
If we want people in the AOA, we need to make it an organization where it's benefit is obvious to it's membership. By focusing on important issues and protecting the interests of the membership, we can do just that. The company is notorious for playing one group of pilots against another. A vs. B scale, Based vs Hong Kong. Freight vs Pax. They appeal to one group and cut another's CofS. We have to start looking at things as a single group!
If we build it....they will join.
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Personally i reckon it's time to move on and get as many people into the AOA as possible! There are many very important issue's comming up and we need a strong unified AOA to defend what Cos we have left!!
I realise the ineptitude of the AOA in the past but that does not preclude us from rebuilding...
Otherwise RP04/DEFO(P) and Age 60 are going to pass and we will receive absolutely nothing in return except reduced Cos.
I realise the ineptitude of the AOA in the past but that does not preclude us from rebuilding...
Otherwise RP04/DEFO(P) and Age 60 are going to pass and we will receive absolutely nothing in return except reduced Cos.
Crunk
I was looking for the applause icon but Danny hasn't provided the upgrade
Finally someone has got the horse in front of the cart.
There really is no need for DEFO's and age 60 when there is enough talent in the pipeline. The only problem is the pipeline is blocked.
With some creative ideas, the AOA could provide some positive solutions rather than leaving the door open for management to continue to look for counter-intuitive bandaids.
I was looking for the applause icon but Danny hasn't provided the upgrade
Finally someone has got the horse in front of the cart.
There really is no need for DEFO's and age 60 when there is enough talent in the pipeline. The only problem is the pipeline is blocked.
With some creative ideas, the AOA could provide some positive solutions rather than leaving the door open for management to continue to look for counter-intuitive bandaids.
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Originally Posted by VR-HFX
There really is no need for DEFO's and age 60 when there is enough talent in the pipeline. The only problem is the pipeline is blocked.
Yes, the pilot shortage is finally here and this is just the tip of the iceberg! Get ready for more parked aircraft at airlines around the world until bean-counters realize that they no longer hold the ball.
CP
I beg to differ. The beancounters have well and truly taken over the company and while we continue to eat our own young, their sway will not diminish.They think only short-term spreadsheets and are incapable of seeing where waste can be eliminated and value enhanced.
My straw poll tells me there is a lot of experienced but de-motivated talent wandering around with 3 bars on their shoulders. The company has succeeded in turning them into part-time pilots who would be just as happy to stay that way, preferably on a base.
What needs fixing is the whole culture. Clearly the SO, JFO and SFO system can only work if we are employing a body of experienced pilots who can go years at a time without doing any real flying. Otherwise much much more needs to be spent in the training section.
The upgrade failure rates are a disgrace not to mention a huge waste of resources.This cannot be blamed solely on the quality of recruits. After 12-14 years anyone worthy their stripes should be able to get their pet poodle through the system.
And speaking of de-motivated, try talking to some of our best ambassadors next time you step put for a whizz.
Anyone wanting to do the 60 thingy should have to shovel coal in the training section if they are up for it. Otherwise go fishing.
I beg to differ. The beancounters have well and truly taken over the company and while we continue to eat our own young, their sway will not diminish.They think only short-term spreadsheets and are incapable of seeing where waste can be eliminated and value enhanced.
My straw poll tells me there is a lot of experienced but de-motivated talent wandering around with 3 bars on their shoulders. The company has succeeded in turning them into part-time pilots who would be just as happy to stay that way, preferably on a base.
What needs fixing is the whole culture. Clearly the SO, JFO and SFO system can only work if we are employing a body of experienced pilots who can go years at a time without doing any real flying. Otherwise much much more needs to be spent in the training section.
The upgrade failure rates are a disgrace not to mention a huge waste of resources.This cannot be blamed solely on the quality of recruits. After 12-14 years anyone worthy their stripes should be able to get their pet poodle through the system.
And speaking of de-motivated, try talking to some of our best ambassadors next time you step put for a whizz.
Anyone wanting to do the 60 thingy should have to shovel coal in the training section if they are up for it. Otherwise go fishing.
