Age 60 and DEFO's
Join Date: Feb 2006
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SHUT UP!
boys, boys, boys.......we're in the box seat as far as future pilot shortages in the region go.
We(the AOA, or at least I thought they were supposed to be representing us!) don't even need to be talking to the company at the moment, we have a perfectly good contract(well, not quite, I admit!) that we can sit on until they come to us with something decent.
You bet your ass we'll end up worse off in some way through growth(get screwed again!) talks. Whether its a permanent bunch of conditions for extension, DEFO's or rostering, who knows.
Its just not in our interest to talk about anything right now.
Pressure on pilot numbers in the region over the next couple of years will create a supply and demand environment that will benefit all of us.
Our fun loving patriots over the border need something like 2000 pilots a year for the foreseeable future and can only train about 10% of that, Vietnam and Korean have just increased the expat contract pay and conditions on offer, very few new commercial pilots in Australia(only about 150 last year!!)
The best thing we can do right now is just SHUT UP!!!
We(the AOA, or at least I thought they were supposed to be representing us!) don't even need to be talking to the company at the moment, we have a perfectly good contract(well, not quite, I admit!) that we can sit on until they come to us with something decent.
You bet your ass we'll end up worse off in some way through growth(get screwed again!) talks. Whether its a permanent bunch of conditions for extension, DEFO's or rostering, who knows.
Its just not in our interest to talk about anything right now.
Pressure on pilot numbers in the region over the next couple of years will create a supply and demand environment that will benefit all of us.
Our fun loving patriots over the border need something like 2000 pilots a year for the foreseeable future and can only train about 10% of that, Vietnam and Korean have just increased the expat contract pay and conditions on offer, very few new commercial pilots in Australia(only about 150 last year!!)
The best thing we can do right now is just SHUT UP!!!
Repeat again...there is no need for 60.
Problem is those that want to stay till 60 aren' the ones the company wants to keep because they don't have a life.
I think we have set a new all comers record in April by CAT-B'ing everyone that went thru command training. What a waste.
With averages running at 40% of cadets and 20% of DE's being failed on first goes, we are a disgrace. How one describes April, I have no idea.
All the bickering about T&C's and the company is piddling millions against the wall....
If only Philip had half a brain he may be able to comprehend this
Problem is those that want to stay till 60 aren' the ones the company wants to keep because they don't have a life.
I think we have set a new all comers record in April by CAT-B'ing everyone that went thru command training. What a waste.
With averages running at 40% of cadets and 20% of DE's being failed on first goes, we are a disgrace. How one describes April, I have no idea.
All the bickering about T&C's and the company is piddling millions against the wall....
If only Philip had half a brain he may be able to comprehend this
And another thing!
(sorry if it hijacks the thread but it is related).
There's currently an IFALPA ban (however useful or not that may be etc) on Direct Entry pilots for the 747-400 over at Dragon Air. The management there are trying to bypass/undermine their own guys by hiring off the streets. Just like us a few years back but the Dragon pilot union by all accounts seems to be handling it OK so far.
Rumour has it that a four very well-off, post 55, ex-CX drivers are looking at, or will take these positions to generate a little more beer money (it's a truly crap contract by the way).
I may be missing something but far more than for our own recent events (i.e. GA guys being involved in our inhouse dispute), isn't this sort of behaviour by financially independent pilots who had otherwise finished their careers the most appalling form of Scabbing? Should they not be ostracized as pariahs for undermining their peers' livelihoods for their own selfish desires?
Yes I am probably living in a dreamland and I know decency is an old-fashioned concept nowdays and the 'greed is good' mentality prevails but do these former colleagues of ours have no morals whatsoever?
Perhaps to you 'gentlemen' the taste of those beers will be as distasteful as your actions.
(sorry if it hijacks the thread but it is related).There's currently an IFALPA ban (however useful or not that may be etc) on Direct Entry pilots for the 747-400 over at Dragon Air. The management there are trying to bypass/undermine their own guys by hiring off the streets. Just like us a few years back but the Dragon pilot union by all accounts seems to be handling it OK so far.
Rumour has it that a four very well-off, post 55, ex-CX drivers are looking at, or will take these positions to generate a little more beer money (it's a truly crap contract by the way).
I may be missing something but far more than for our own recent events (i.e. GA guys being involved in our inhouse dispute), isn't this sort of behaviour by financially independent pilots who had otherwise finished their careers the most appalling form of Scabbing? Should they not be ostracized as pariahs for undermining their peers' livelihoods for their own selfish desires?
Yes I am probably living in a dreamland and I know decency is an old-fashioned concept nowdays and the 'greed is good' mentality prevails but do these former colleagues of ours have no morals whatsoever?
Perhaps to you 'gentlemen' the taste of those beers will be as distasteful as your actions.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Ah, yes, looks like the Dragonair guys have learnt a thing or two from the Cathay guys.......................very sensible, get someone else to do your fighting..................IFALPA ban..................get real people, everyone has the god given right to withdraw their labour in support of their cause, justifiable or otherwise......................But to ask someone else to withold their labour to support you.............................
something about Pi##ing into the wind ............................and what compensation is the Dragon Pilots Union going to offer people for refusing to take the -400 jobs???
Moral indignation is all well and good....................but it don't put food on the table....................................
something about Pi##ing into the wind ............................and what compensation is the Dragon Pilots Union going to offer people for refusing to take the -400 jobs???
Moral indignation is all well and good....................but it don't put food on the table....................................
Above are good points and hopefully they will not repeat our mistakes.
However, get it straight - as sizematters says - we made the mistake of trying to get GA guys to do our fighting for us. The Dragon managers however are looking for direct entry Captains. A big difference.
Sizematters you are wrong however: 'Moral indignation is all well and good.....but it don't put food on the table'. The classic melodramatic words of the self-serving - a scabs favourite sentence. 'Wo is me I must feed and clothe my poor children....after I buy the new Porsche of course'.
There are any number of jobs out there now for 747 captains without having to undermine colleagues' attempts to better their terms and conditions.
My point is not about putting food any table it is about beer money for a few selfish old A-scalers who don't give a toss about anybody else and are happy to screw the Dragon guys for their own ends.
However, get it straight - as sizematters says - we made the mistake of trying to get GA guys to do our fighting for us. The Dragon managers however are looking for direct entry Captains. A big difference.
Sizematters you are wrong however: 'Moral indignation is all well and good.....but it don't put food on the table'. The classic melodramatic words of the self-serving - a scabs favourite sentence. 'Wo is me I must feed and clothe my poor children....after I buy the new Porsche of course'.
There are any number of jobs out there now for 747 captains without having to undermine colleagues' attempts to better their terms and conditions.
My point is not about putting food any table it is about beer money for a few selfish old A-scalers who don't give a toss about anybody else and are happy to screw the Dragon guys for their own ends.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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I cannot genuinely see “4 very well off SENIOR Cx 744 Pilots” breaking the Dragonair IFALPA ban.
You must be misinformed. They have more integrity than any pilot group I know or have known.
You must be misinformed. They have more integrity than any pilot group I know or have known.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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If guys want to work past 60,it's their bussiness, nobody elses. When you reach that ripe old age wouldn't you want the choice? These guys have paid their dues and aren't intentionally trying to displace anybody or take their money. There's lots of jobs and cash out there for everybody.
If guys want to work past 60,it's their bussiness, nobody elses
Yeah right!
And if a guy wants to break a strike it's his business and stuff everybody else.
We're talking about guys who have ALREADY RETIRED with their millions, who want to screw their young colleagues at Dragon for pure greed. And that's nobody else's business?
Extraordinary and indefensible selfishness.
Yeah right!
And if a guy wants to break a strike it's his business and stuff everybody else.
We're talking about guys who have ALREADY RETIRED with their millions, who want to screw their young colleagues at Dragon for pure greed. And that's nobody else's business?
Extraordinary and indefensible selfishness.
Join Date: Mar 2002
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What a load of absolute uninformed tripe Al.E.Vator!
Do you know about the personal circumstances of the individuals who are allegedly applying? In at least one case you don't or you wouldn't be trotting out this clap trap about greed. Why don't you try dealing in facts rather than emotional fiction?
Do you know about the personal circumstances of the individuals who are allegedly applying? In at least one case you don't or you wouldn't be trotting out this clap trap about greed. Why don't you try dealing in facts rather than emotional fiction?
Last edited by Five Livers; 20th May 2006 at 03:46.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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DEFO slots will be filled by QF furlos! at least they get to stay in AUS.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226825
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226825
