Expat Ground Engineers Viewpoint
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Expat Ground Engineers Viewpoint
We have no union, we work 12hr shifts,
Most months exceeding 200hrs a month. Lucky if we get a 45min break in our shifts.
Thought of a crew rest area would be a dream..We get a crew room with smelly chineese slop being served.
20 transits per shift. All those drivers bitching about defects, yet we still plod on.
All this for probably a fraction of what you drivers earn.
Do we bitch...No.... Why......Because were all professional engineers who gave up good jobs in BA, Qantas,South African, to come and work here in Hong Kong..
Lets show Asia we are the best, Not for the wrong reasons.
Most months exceeding 200hrs a month. Lucky if we get a 45min break in our shifts.
Thought of a crew rest area would be a dream..We get a crew room with smelly chineese slop being served.
20 transits per shift. All those drivers bitching about defects, yet we still plod on.
All this for probably a fraction of what you drivers earn.
Do we bitch...No.... Why......Because were all professional engineers who gave up good jobs in BA, Qantas,South African, to come and work here in Hong Kong..
Lets show Asia we are the best, Not for the wrong reasons.
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Don't think for a second that the AOA truly represents all the pilots. Indeed I think their power base is diminishing as more and more get dis-enchanted with the direction they seem so determined on.
Most of us do understand that life is not so bad. We truly appreciate your engineering expertise professionalism and dedication.
I hasten to add that all, from admin clerks to windscreen washers, are also appreciated.
Most of us do understand that life is not so bad. We truly appreciate your engineering expertise professionalism and dedication.
I hasten to add that all, from admin clerks to windscreen washers, are also appreciated.
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Yes and all the while the honey truck driver gets paid less, works longer, and retires with less benifits.... but wait Dichead Turdball gets paid 80 times more, rakes in huge bonuses, and gets a parking spot.
Your point is?????
Your point is?????
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The point is your education only got your to driver position..
Turnball decided on the management field..
AOA will only ever mean one thing in aviation.
Angle of Attack...
Get back in your left seats and fly them planes..If you want to see your family get a 9 to 5 job.
Turnball decided on the management field..
AOA will only ever mean one thing in aviation.
Angle of Attack...
Get back in your left seats and fly them planes..If you want to see your family get a 9 to 5 job.
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jtr
Not sure I really want to go here but in an attempt to save another mortal soul I will give it a go.
Some years back when CX needed (under corporate disclosure rules) to publish the top 50 salary earners in the company, only the MD scraped in at about number 48. Sure things have changed a bit since then with the B scale et al but the reality is that most senior management would swap their average salary since joining with yours.
I use the accolade "********" sparingly but you have earned it.
There are issues but this is not one.
Not sure I really want to go here but in an attempt to save another mortal soul I will give it a go.
Some years back when CX needed (under corporate disclosure rules) to publish the top 50 salary earners in the company, only the MD scraped in at about number 48. Sure things have changed a bit since then with the B scale et al but the reality is that most senior management would swap their average salary since joining with yours.
I use the accolade "********" sparingly but you have earned it.
There are issues but this is not one.
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Well said Wanchai Butterfly.
You should hear the comments amongst the Cabin Crew who are starting to hate the Flight Deck. One even said at lunch this week 'I cant wait until they lock the cockpit door then we dont have bother feeding the scum.' Not my words but they made me laugh... in shame at the fact that the Drivers had reduced the profession to this.
The lowest reached was one trip when the captain tried to lay the blame of a delay on the ISM. The captain was from North America and he will exposed shortly. He wore yellow.
Boeing Boeing
You should hear the comments amongst the Cabin Crew who are starting to hate the Flight Deck. One even said at lunch this week 'I cant wait until they lock the cockpit door then we dont have bother feeding the scum.' Not my words but they made me laugh... in shame at the fact that the Drivers had reduced the profession to this.
The lowest reached was one trip when the captain tried to lay the blame of a delay on the ISM. The captain was from North America and he will exposed shortly. He wore yellow.
Boeing Boeing
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Wanchai Butterfly,
I have always placed a lot of faith in the opinions of the ground engineers. However, unlike BA and QANTAS, the engineers here are placed under tremendous pressure to get the airplanes signed off. I have had several engineers complain to me about this pressure.
The drivers are bitching to you because things are not being fixed. Yours management does not respect your professionlism, otherwise you would be given the time and facilities to fix these aircraft. If your professionalism were respected, you would have descent rest facilities, be adequately compensated for your efforts, and be allowed to carry out your job to the professional standards you would prefer. Professionalism isn't just about doing your job come hell or high water, it is also about having it recognised and appreciated.
Regarding the 49ers, there are several of these guys who I don't want to see back, but I fully support the unconditional reinstatement of these aircrew. Why you might ask, the answer is simple. Every regulatory authority in every state gives the operating crew of an aircraft a significant amount of independant authority regarding the acceptance and operation of that aircraft, an authority that is denied to the company because of the potential for abuse. If a company is allowed to sack without cause, any aircrew, than this authority is effectively compromised.
Should the 49ers be reinstated and the grievance procedure implemented, the company will have the opportunity to air their misgivings and the employee will be put on notice to lift his or her game. I don't think any fair minded person could complain about that. The grievance procedure needs to be recognised by any company that claims to be a career airline.
The "Lunatic Fringe" need not reply.
I have always placed a lot of faith in the opinions of the ground engineers. However, unlike BA and QANTAS, the engineers here are placed under tremendous pressure to get the airplanes signed off. I have had several engineers complain to me about this pressure.
The drivers are bitching to you because things are not being fixed. Yours management does not respect your professionlism, otherwise you would be given the time and facilities to fix these aircraft. If your professionalism were respected, you would have descent rest facilities, be adequately compensated for your efforts, and be allowed to carry out your job to the professional standards you would prefer. Professionalism isn't just about doing your job come hell or high water, it is also about having it recognised and appreciated.
Regarding the 49ers, there are several of these guys who I don't want to see back, but I fully support the unconditional reinstatement of these aircrew. Why you might ask, the answer is simple. Every regulatory authority in every state gives the operating crew of an aircraft a significant amount of independant authority regarding the acceptance and operation of that aircraft, an authority that is denied to the company because of the potential for abuse. If a company is allowed to sack without cause, any aircrew, than this authority is effectively compromised.
Should the 49ers be reinstated and the grievance procedure implemented, the company will have the opportunity to air their misgivings and the employee will be put on notice to lift his or her game. I don't think any fair minded person could complain about that. The grievance procedure needs to be recognised by any company that claims to be a career airline.
The "Lunatic Fringe" need not reply.
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Don't be fooled into thinking that the AOA doesn't have pilots' support in CX. The AOA IS the pilot group and they all support it, all the way. Read the disclaimer in red at the bottom of the page and think.
The ground engineers, if they don't like their lot, could protect themselves and for a union. Simple folks.
The ground engineers, if they don't like their lot, could protect themselves and for a union. Simple folks.
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Dream on Lerxt & Iago.... smell the coffee. The AOA is dead in the water, bankrupt of a workable policy, the playground of Demery & Findlay in pursuit of their own agenda.
They are not on your side as they seek new jobs. The sad part is that the membership, in theory a 'thinking profession' have been fooled and pirated. they are thinking like the 'oldest' profession
The AOA lost the PR and credibity wars long ago. The staff hate us that's why there is a wall of silenece around pilots these days. They have to be the only group in the world who think all is okay and they can claim what they want when they want.
Advocating the Engineers take union action just proves that most in the AOA are selfish ECONOMIC TERRORISTS. May the bombs of reality rain down on the AOA. Hoping they are bombaed back to the stoneage(aka as the Scargill days.
Boeing Boeing
They are not on your side as they seek new jobs. The sad part is that the membership, in theory a 'thinking profession' have been fooled and pirated. they are thinking like the 'oldest' profession
The AOA lost the PR and credibity wars long ago. The staff hate us that's why there is a wall of silenece around pilots these days. They have to be the only group in the world who think all is okay and they can claim what they want when they want.
Advocating the Engineers take union action just proves that most in the AOA are selfish ECONOMIC TERRORISTS. May the bombs of reality rain down on the AOA. Hoping they are bombaed back to the stoneage(aka as the Scargill days.
Boeing Boeing
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Perhaps Wanchai Butterfly could answer a couple of questions....how many GE's (expat and local) have been laid off in the last say, 4 years? If you are signing 20 aircraft off pershift can you really, (being the professional you clain to be), be devoting the correct attention to each aircraft, or is this just another 'Parker Pen' exercise so loved by the powers that be? I'm not with CX by the way, but we use you in HKG during transits.
As for Nasty Nasty....get off your knees bitch...you're full.
As for Nasty Nasty....get off your knees bitch...you're full.
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Stop Start, in the last 4 years 200+ from CX, don't know about HAECO (which is where I suspect Wanchai Butterfly is) but I do recall they (HAECO) also laid off many GE's as you put it around the same time and/or reduced the benefits/housing allowance etc, hope that answers your first question, you probably didn't remember but also hundreds of other insignificant (as you would view us I guess) ground staff were laid off too. Which is probably one of the reasons (not mine) that the Flt Deck are not viewed in the best light at present.
I can say to you no matter how many aircraft I had to work in a day I would not release any that I did not consider to be airworthy. If you don't believe me just ask the 430 pax that were staring out of the terminal window at me the other day when I wouldn't (or couldn't) release the a/c even though the '
professional' crew were insisting on it.
As for unions, as the pilots are a single! body of x000's it is far easier to get a union recognised than it is for the understaffed overworked Ground Staff as there are not many (if any) that have any idea what aviation is about let alone how to represent the Ground Engineers.
I can say to you no matter how many aircraft I had to work in a day I would not release any that I did not consider to be airworthy. If you don't believe me just ask the 430 pax that were staring out of the terminal window at me the other day when I wouldn't (or couldn't) release the a/c even though the '
professional' crew were insisting on it.
As for unions, as the pilots are a single! body of x000's it is far easier to get a union recognised than it is for the understaffed overworked Ground Staff as there are not many (if any) that have any idea what aviation is about let alone how to represent the Ground Engineers.
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Thks Spannaratcx, Just what I was going to say, but in a few more words...
Just for info....Us at HAECO do all the transits.CX engineering do not get involved with other operators on the ramp in HKG.
Around the world, yes they do handle others..
Further news..I hear today the 13th month salary is canx, but those drivers still got there pay rise..
Still not complaining..
Just for info....Us at HAECO do all the transits.CX engineering do not get involved with other operators on the ramp in HKG.
Around the world, yes they do handle others..
Further news..I hear today the 13th month salary is canx, but those drivers still got there pay rise..
Still not complaining..
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But surely the pilots at CX started off a union/association with only a few? Ever since Brooksy and his mates got the push there has been a continual erosion of Groundcrew salaries and benefits....plus repeated retrenchment of jobs....yet still you slag off the pilots for attempting to stave off the same thing happening to them?
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I don't recall when I slagged off the Pilots on this forum, I may of had disagreements on certain issues but I haven't slagged them off or called them names. I've always tried to see things as they are. I could go on but I don't want to go down that road here, I'm glad that the action has been suspended and I certainly hope that both sides can get around the table and talk sensibly particularly about rostering as that's what it started off as, and they do have my sympathies, but believe me in that last week I didn't do any off the shifts I was rostered to do and it isn't easy, the only consolation I had was that I was at home in my own bed, mind you the rest of the family were elsewhere at school and work. It would be nice, for once, that the them and us thing didn't appear in every thread that seems to get started on PPRune these days. 
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Think its time to close this topic now...
Come on gents.. Were all professionals.
You drive em... we fix em.
AOA is history..
11th September is life..
Schedule is cut back...Utilization is low.
Hopefully we will clear some of those ADDS.
Remember we all work as a team, and No1 priority is safety..
Lets make CX management realise that we cannot afford anymore jobcuts..
If we lose anymore staff, the next thing we will lose is an airframe with 400 lives and that will be the end..Do we really want to be one of the following.
Look at SQ, CI, KE plus many others..
"Same team Same Dream"
PS....I need jump seat CX 251 24th Dec"
Come on gents.. Were all professionals.
You drive em... we fix em.
AOA is history..
11th September is life..
Schedule is cut back...Utilization is low.
Hopefully we will clear some of those ADDS.
Remember we all work as a team, and No1 priority is safety..
Lets make CX management realise that we cannot afford anymore jobcuts..
If we lose anymore staff, the next thing we will lose is an airframe with 400 lives and that will be the end..Do we really want to be one of the following.
Look at SQ, CI, KE plus many others..
"Same team Same Dream"
PS....I need jump seat CX 251 24th Dec"
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He's baaaack...
Where have you been 411? Filling in the applications for ALTCS? Chaparoned tour to Lake Havasu? Senior junket to Laughlin?
[ 04 November 2001: Message edited by: Kubota ]
Where have you been 411? Filling in the applications for ALTCS? Chaparoned tour to Lake Havasu? Senior junket to Laughlin?
[ 04 November 2001: Message edited by: Kubota ]