For all Real Cathay Pilots
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For all Real Cathay Pilots
I am a regular traveler to Asia from North America and I want you to know that the reason I choose to fly with Cathay is because of you, and not for any other reason . I fly quite often and in my humble opinion, Cathay pilots are top notch in the air. I know no other pilots as professional and with as much attention to detail as Cathay pilots.
Last week on my flight from Chek Lap Kok to Chiang Kai Shek, I saw Captain Tandy donning a red vest and checking the exterior of his A330 in detail before take off. In other flights across the Pacific, I have seen several captains walk the length of the cabin to make sure that all the passengers are OK. Cathay pilots are the best!
No matter what happens, I will support you. You are the reason I fly Cathay. You are the best in the skies!
Carry on!
Last week on my flight from Chek Lap Kok to Chiang Kai Shek, I saw Captain Tandy donning a red vest and checking the exterior of his A330 in detail before take off. In other flights across the Pacific, I have seen several captains walk the length of the cabin to make sure that all the passengers are OK. Cathay pilots are the best!
No matter what happens, I will support you. You are the reason I fly Cathay. You are the best in the skies!
Carry on!
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Thanks AF II
Touched a couple of raw nerves there tho'. Boy..you guys need therapy!
Cathay pilots are the same as pilots the world over.Get used to it.
Someone pays us a compliment and you go into vitriol mode. Speaks volumes for your mental state. get some rest.
Touched a couple of raw nerves there tho'. Boy..you guys need therapy!
Cathay pilots are the same as pilots the world over.Get used to it.
Someone pays us a compliment and you go into vitriol mode. Speaks volumes for your mental state. get some rest.
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Not p!ssi!ng in anyone's pocket here - just an honest statement of facts. I have quite a few friends....actually acquaintances would probably be a more correct term in reality, as the communication is sparse at the best of times....in CX. These pilot acquaintances probably span a 15 year age group (from oldest to youngest), but without a doubt were "the cream of the crop" when selected [from the numerous other applicants], as no doubt those following have been, AND - as a point of contention perhaps, amongst CX drivers at present, "Tiger" Tyler was at his time of appointment. This explained, and was accepted by the other pilot groups, as just one of the reasons as to why CX pilots were valued by their employer - The Swire Group. Cathay Pacific was rightly promoted as THE Premium Airline, and attracted their clientele on this reputation.
If current management wish to drag Cathay Pacific's name down to the "just another Asian airline" level by slagging their "creme-de-la-creme" pilot workforce, then go for it IF you believe you can compete with the Air Cambodges, Air Vietnams, Air Llankas, etc, and give the shareholders a fair return on their investments.
Cathay Pacific has taken decades to establish and maintain the name it has - one of QUALITY, and SAFETY.
It's a foolish and blind person who would attempt to capitalise on a new "K-Mart Hong Kong style" airline, with the numerous other choices already established. Stay with the tried and proven product!
If current management wish to drag Cathay Pacific's name down to the "just another Asian airline" level by slagging their "creme-de-la-creme" pilot workforce, then go for it IF you believe you can compete with the Air Cambodges, Air Vietnams, Air Llankas, etc, and give the shareholders a fair return on their investments.
Cathay Pacific has taken decades to establish and maintain the name it has - one of QUALITY, and SAFETY.
It's a foolish and blind person who would attempt to capitalise on a new "K-Mart Hong Kong style" airline, with the numerous other choices already established. Stay with the tried and proven product!
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Please forgive me, Waco. I am merely a paying passenger. What may impress me may not easily impress you, as I believe that you are also an airline professional.
What I do intend to say is this. As a paying passenger, in my many flights in North America, across the Pacific and in Asia, I have always trusted the lives of my family, my associates, my friends and myself to the pilots of Cathay. In short, granted that I am a paying passenger and, if perception is everything, let's say that I perceive and I believe Cathay pilots to be extremely skilled, dedicated and professional and that my mind is at ease each and every time I fly with them. Peace of mind is what I am getting at.
The Cathay ticket costs more than other airlines. But, as a paying passenger, I am willing to pay a little more for the peace of mind. And, yes, FYI, I have had some experiences with pilots from airlines which I care not to think about ever again in the future. I have flown more miles with Cathay than with any other airline, yet I have never once had a bad experience with any of their cockpit professionals.
CX Pilots, I want you to know that there is someone in the cabin who cares about you. I have been through many jobs and companies in my lifetime (never a pilot, though unfortunately). The most rewarding situation is when I know taht I am really good at tsomething and that I am respected for the professional I am each and every day I go to work. The worst situation is when management does not respect me for what I have contributed to the team and to the company. I can go on and on.
So, as a mere paying passenger, let me just say that, when I am landing in my hometown of Los Angeles, and there is a thick marine layer covering the coastline way past the 405 Freeway and I can't see a bug beneath it in the nightime, I do feel more reassured that there is a true professional at the helm guiding the Jumbo in for a feather like landing. Or, when flying over the vast Pacific by Iwo Jima, in near pitch black, the second taht we hit turbulence and storm clouds, you feel the aircraft gently change altitude and the blue wingtip strobe ligths come on, there is just something reassuring about this that I cannot amply describe in words.
I have observed these on more than on CX Flight. And, Waco, if it is you at the helm of the aircraft and you do this for me, you will have my gratitude too. And also the gratidude of my family, my friends and all my associates. And, your company will have my business.
The Resistance and Kaptain M, I am the one who should thank you. What I have said and done on this board is the least I could do for the fine group of professionals which you are and always will be. I fly Cathay because of the professionalism and quality of its pilots.
Truth be told.
Carry on and God Bless!
What I do intend to say is this. As a paying passenger, in my many flights in North America, across the Pacific and in Asia, I have always trusted the lives of my family, my associates, my friends and myself to the pilots of Cathay. In short, granted that I am a paying passenger and, if perception is everything, let's say that I perceive and I believe Cathay pilots to be extremely skilled, dedicated and professional and that my mind is at ease each and every time I fly with them. Peace of mind is what I am getting at.
The Cathay ticket costs more than other airlines. But, as a paying passenger, I am willing to pay a little more for the peace of mind. And, yes, FYI, I have had some experiences with pilots from airlines which I care not to think about ever again in the future. I have flown more miles with Cathay than with any other airline, yet I have never once had a bad experience with any of their cockpit professionals.
CX Pilots, I want you to know that there is someone in the cabin who cares about you. I have been through many jobs and companies in my lifetime (never a pilot, though unfortunately). The most rewarding situation is when I know taht I am really good at tsomething and that I am respected for the professional I am each and every day I go to work. The worst situation is when management does not respect me for what I have contributed to the team and to the company. I can go on and on.
So, as a mere paying passenger, let me just say that, when I am landing in my hometown of Los Angeles, and there is a thick marine layer covering the coastline way past the 405 Freeway and I can't see a bug beneath it in the nightime, I do feel more reassured that there is a true professional at the helm guiding the Jumbo in for a feather like landing. Or, when flying over the vast Pacific by Iwo Jima, in near pitch black, the second taht we hit turbulence and storm clouds, you feel the aircraft gently change altitude and the blue wingtip strobe ligths come on, there is just something reassuring about this that I cannot amply describe in words.
I have observed these on more than on CX Flight. And, Waco, if it is you at the helm of the aircraft and you do this for me, you will have my gratitude too. And also the gratidude of my family, my friends and all my associates. And, your company will have my business.
The Resistance and Kaptain M, I am the one who should thank you. What I have said and done on this board is the least I could do for the fine group of professionals which you are and always will be. I fly Cathay because of the professionalism and quality of its pilots.
Truth be told.
Carry on and God Bless!
Guest
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Sorry AF II
But i've been working hard today, preflights in the rain etc.. so I am a little short tempered.
Many of my fellow airline aviators out there in jetland are sick of twits like you pissing in the pockets of every ****ing CX pilot.
It is an affront to pro's at BA / QF and all the others. We are sick of the bleeding hearts from the harbour.
But i've been working hard today, preflights in the rain etc.. so I am a little short tempered.
Many of my fellow airline aviators out there in jetland are sick of twits like you pissing in the pockets of every ****ing CX pilot.
It is an affront to pro's at BA / QF and all the others. We are sick of the bleeding hearts from the harbour.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
The flight crew safety issue is an interesting one at CX. Have a look at the other large asian carriers. All have an excellent saftey record with the exception of Korean and China Airlines. Have wondered why the pilots think that, just because they work for Cathay, that they are "more saftey oriented" than others. The salary issue is also interesting, SIA is the largest carrier in the area yet generally pays less than CX, yet the employees there (including pilots) do exactly the same jobs and fly the same equipment. Why then, do the Cathay guys think they should be paid so much more?
And, consider the Cathay shareholders. They expect a reasonable return on their investment so, it could be argued that it is managements' duty to keep the flight crew salaries reasonable. To do otherwise, management would be violating their fiduciary duty.
And yet, the loudest complaints come from the CX pilots. Even the SQ guys don't whine so much.
Conclusion: The CX guys are the snobs of the asian aircarrier pilot fraternity. All it accomplishes is to make themselves look very foolish.
And, consider the Cathay shareholders. They expect a reasonable return on their investment so, it could be argued that it is managements' duty to keep the flight crew salaries reasonable. To do otherwise, management would be violating their fiduciary duty.
And yet, the loudest complaints come from the CX pilots. Even the SQ guys don't whine so much.
Conclusion: The CX guys are the snobs of the asian aircarrier pilot fraternity. All it accomplishes is to make themselves look very foolish.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,025
Likes: 1
From: The Global village
411A, have you spent your life in a vacuum? Some of your comments would make it seem so - get that enormous chip off your shoulder and look at the issues. Here are just a few reasons I (an non-CX pilot) can come up with, off the top of my head:
First off, you said,
Well, precisely which ones are you referring to?
SQ does NOT -
remember the stalling of the A310 over the Bay of Bengal? The stalling of the B747-400 enroute Europe? And of course SQ006 at Taipei?
JAL does NOT - B747 crash in Japan. Overrun into Tokyo{?} Bay.
Garuda does NOT - Airbus cfit in Medan. Aborted take-off and crash after V1, in Fukuoka, Japan.
MAS does NOT - F50 crash in Tawau. B737 overrun at Miri.
Thai does NOT - A300 cfit at Kathmandu.
C'mon 411A, don't make unfounded statements.
Next, the licencing requirements of Cathay are MUCH higher than ANY of the other major Asian airlines.
The selection process for prospective CX pilots has a far higher reject rate than other Asian carriers!
You said:
Hurrah! At last we ALL agree with you on that one. This is one of the issues, as I understand it, for the current problems. CX management have NOT kept the salaries at a reasonable level - they have pushed them to well BELOW reasonable, and the current expenditure of millions of dollars in wet leasing other carriers' aircraft to support managements' war on their pilots is certainly going to result in a blow to shareholders' returns.
One final point to remember, is the retirement age of Cathay pilots. You, 411A mentioned the ex-CX pilots you knew at SIA - and WHY were they there? Because SQ pilots are able to work through to 60 years - 5 years MORE than the CX gentlemen.
I'm sure some of the Cathay guys who still hang around PPRuNe can further shoot your argument down.
First off, you said,
Have a look at the other large asian carriers. All have an excellent saftey record with the exception of Korean and China Airlines.
SQ does NOT -
remember the stalling of the A310 over the Bay of Bengal? The stalling of the B747-400 enroute Europe? And of course SQ006 at Taipei?
JAL does NOT - B747 crash in Japan. Overrun into Tokyo{?} Bay.
Garuda does NOT - Airbus cfit in Medan. Aborted take-off and crash after V1, in Fukuoka, Japan.
MAS does NOT - F50 crash in Tawau. B737 overrun at Miri.
Thai does NOT - A300 cfit at Kathmandu.
C'mon 411A, don't make unfounded statements.
Next, the licencing requirements of Cathay are MUCH higher than ANY of the other major Asian airlines.
The selection process for prospective CX pilots has a far higher reject rate than other Asian carriers!
You said:
...Cathay shareholders. They expect a reasonable return on their investment so, it could be argued that it is managements' duty to keep the flight crew salaries reasonable. To do otherwise, management would be violating their fiduciary duty.
One final point to remember, is the retirement age of Cathay pilots. You, 411A mentioned the ex-CX pilots you knew at SIA - and WHY were they there? Because SQ pilots are able to work through to 60 years - 5 years MORE than the CX gentlemen.
I'm sure some of the Cathay guys who still hang around PPRuNe can further shoot your argument down.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
Licensing requirements---more difficult in HKG?
Could be so, but I remember two CX guys that appeared in Singapore years ago and were refused a validation because....they could not substantiate their flying time with a bound, stamped & certified log book, as required by the S'pore CAA. Interesting to note also that two from JAL could not do so as well. They all went away very disappointed.
Rejection rate excessive...well would agree with you there, especially for the local guys.
With the reduced wage expectations in Asia today, suspect that the CX guys will come out on the short end....maybe they should "vote" with their feet.
Could be so, but I remember two CX guys that appeared in Singapore years ago and were refused a validation because....they could not substantiate their flying time with a bound, stamped & certified log book, as required by the S'pore CAA. Interesting to note also that two from JAL could not do so as well. They all went away very disappointed.
Rejection rate excessive...well would agree with you there, especially for the local guys.
With the reduced wage expectations in Asia today, suspect that the CX guys will come out on the short end....maybe they should "vote" with their feet.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Waco, did not mean to create any tensions. Just thought that I would say what was on my mind . Hope that it did not create too many waves . BA and QF are also fine airlines. Being the mere admirer of airplanes and the the flying profession that I am, I have much confidence in them just like all other fine airlines. BA and QF are excellent.
I'll bug out from now on as this really is not my place to comment. There are things going on that I do not know of and I do not want to step on anyones toes .
Happy flying to you, Waco. And, do tell your compadres at QF to beware of stationary golf courses at Don Muang .
Cheers!
I'll bug out from now on as this really is not my place to comment. There are things going on that I do not know of and I do not want to step on anyones toes .
Happy flying to you, Waco. And, do tell your compadres at QF to beware of stationary golf courses at Don Muang .
Cheers!
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Aviation like any profession has all types. Over 25 years in the industry I have noted there are quality pilots in renowned airlines AND in 'lesser' airlines.
Invariably, the 'renowned' airlines put more emphasis on the types of individuals they want to have sitting in their cockpits. It is thus not by accident Cathay and Qantas (for example) have the high safety history they do.
Other airlines care little for whom they employ as long as they are cheap and thus assist company profitability. Myopically - a crash costs WAY more than the savings cheap labour brings. As per Kaptin M's comment, suggest your example of your former employer SIA is an unconvincing one.
It is of course not to be assumed that 'lesser' airlines employ only lesser pilots - many aviators for less prestigious airlines are excellent and only missed the majors by virtue of age, market timing etc.
Some claim they never wanted to fly for the majors for tax or other reasons and in certain cases this may well be the case. However there are individuals out there who for whatever reason were unable to be part of the majors and are bitter.
Sometimes that bitterness is natural but when it used to attack their peers, colleagues in the same industry it is a shame. In fact it is more than a shame. It is both pathetic and undermines professional pilots as a group.
411A, if you genuinely are a pilot (rolling in all that tax-free money you have enjoyed by working for lesser airlines) then your stance on most issues you comment on is shameful. Rather than your having fun winding-up a bunch of gullible internet-users, I rather think you are a sad and embitterd old man sitting there in the desert counting your money but angry at never having been accepted by your peers. You remind me of one of those psychotic American teens eagerly plotting the machine-gun demise of all those who prevented him joining the baseball team.
Whether you like it or not, the industry is now at a stage where professional pilots (by virtue of supply/demand and pilot shortage) are now at a point that they are able to recoup many of the conditions withdrawn in "harsher" economic times. Continuous undermining by individuals such as yourself (and those who refuse to join pilot unions but gladly accept the benefits those unions bring) does little to assist your peers. Perhaps unimportant to you but without those peers there would be no industry.
Ironically, just as you are about to retire with your money and bitterness, professional pilots are about to receive some of the biggest improvements in working conditions ever. United and AA are just the start and this must permeate through the industry.
Majors will recognise this and will simply adjust cost structures accordingly (otherwise they are out of business) - the undermining by the likes of yourself and upwardly mobile managers out to make a name for themselves will amount to little when airlines are fighting to attract quality aircrew and maintain reputations.
Those who chose attack their pilots conditions too severely (CX at present?) risk the entire future of their business.
So before the likes of yourself disappear into retirement oblivion perhaps you could do a JFK and "Ask not what have my peers done for me, but what have I done for my peers". Your record on this website gives you little to hold your head high.
Now perhaps you could go and hug a tree or something and bring out a kinder side in your personality (sorry no trees there - how about a cactus)!
[ 08 July 2001: Message edited by: Tom Tipper ]
Invariably, the 'renowned' airlines put more emphasis on the types of individuals they want to have sitting in their cockpits. It is thus not by accident Cathay and Qantas (for example) have the high safety history they do.
Other airlines care little for whom they employ as long as they are cheap and thus assist company profitability. Myopically - a crash costs WAY more than the savings cheap labour brings. As per Kaptin M's comment, suggest your example of your former employer SIA is an unconvincing one.
It is of course not to be assumed that 'lesser' airlines employ only lesser pilots - many aviators for less prestigious airlines are excellent and only missed the majors by virtue of age, market timing etc.
Some claim they never wanted to fly for the majors for tax or other reasons and in certain cases this may well be the case. However there are individuals out there who for whatever reason were unable to be part of the majors and are bitter.
Sometimes that bitterness is natural but when it used to attack their peers, colleagues in the same industry it is a shame. In fact it is more than a shame. It is both pathetic and undermines professional pilots as a group.
411A, if you genuinely are a pilot (rolling in all that tax-free money you have enjoyed by working for lesser airlines) then your stance on most issues you comment on is shameful. Rather than your having fun winding-up a bunch of gullible internet-users, I rather think you are a sad and embitterd old man sitting there in the desert counting your money but angry at never having been accepted by your peers. You remind me of one of those psychotic American teens eagerly plotting the machine-gun demise of all those who prevented him joining the baseball team.
Whether you like it or not, the industry is now at a stage where professional pilots (by virtue of supply/demand and pilot shortage) are now at a point that they are able to recoup many of the conditions withdrawn in "harsher" economic times. Continuous undermining by individuals such as yourself (and those who refuse to join pilot unions but gladly accept the benefits those unions bring) does little to assist your peers. Perhaps unimportant to you but without those peers there would be no industry.
Ironically, just as you are about to retire with your money and bitterness, professional pilots are about to receive some of the biggest improvements in working conditions ever. United and AA are just the start and this must permeate through the industry.
Majors will recognise this and will simply adjust cost structures accordingly (otherwise they are out of business) - the undermining by the likes of yourself and upwardly mobile managers out to make a name for themselves will amount to little when airlines are fighting to attract quality aircrew and maintain reputations.
Those who chose attack their pilots conditions too severely (CX at present?) risk the entire future of their business.
So before the likes of yourself disappear into retirement oblivion perhaps you could do a JFK and "Ask not what have my peers done for me, but what have I done for my peers". Your record on this website gives you little to hold your head high.
Now perhaps you could go and hug a tree or something and bring out a kinder side in your personality (sorry no trees there - how about a cactus)!
[ 08 July 2001: Message edited by: Tom Tipper ]
