Wake-Up
Join Date: Feb 1999
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I’m sorry Jumpseat, I appreciate that this thread has gone a bit off the mark but I cannot sit hear and stand these sort of comments from Max Headroom without a reply.
Dear Max Headroom,
You have really done a disservice to your fellow countrymen. My Brother served in the Australian Army in a place called Nui Dat in the Vietnam War. He lost a lot of mates there. There were over 500 Australians killed in that war and I’m sure the families of those lost would not appreciate your viewpoint.
I have personally served with the Australian Defence Force in a combat role. Your description of the attitude of Australians with regard to fighting for what they believe in is way off the mark. Gladly your attitude is not typical. The United States is a great Allie of Australia. I have served with many Americans and hold them in high regard. None of them have displayed your ignorance.
Dear Max Headroom,
You have really done a disservice to your fellow countrymen. My Brother served in the Australian Army in a place called Nui Dat in the Vietnam War. He lost a lot of mates there. There were over 500 Australians killed in that war and I’m sure the families of those lost would not appreciate your viewpoint.
I have personally served with the Australian Defence Force in a combat role. Your description of the attitude of Australians with regard to fighting for what they believe in is way off the mark. Gladly your attitude is not typical. The United States is a great Allie of Australia. I have served with many Americans and hold them in high regard. None of them have displayed your ignorance.
Guest
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If you only had as much fervor for the cause and fight at CX you might win. Venting is a good thing and it helps to slag and vent on other people because it blows the smell of BS out of the room. Perhaps if you got your as8es in gear with as much fervor as you willingly attach others who post here you might gain some ground. But for the most part you are all a bunch of whinning do nothing backstabbing, probably wife cheating, overly defensive, weak minded people. Just read the years and years of this garbage here about your whinnings. Kiss off and boo hoo.
Guest
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Eh gads...I'm glad that our humble web site has resolved the Vietnam War and has settled the arguements between Chinese and German military writers.
But on our point, for those in the Company:
What are the issues?
What is the best approach?
(Warning: any variation from the point will be responded to with a long, verbose and boring quotation from an obscure Ostragothian military writer on the little-known battle of .........not to mention a narrative about when the writer and his wife went on a 5-minute "milk and cookie" strike against his neo-facist Kindagarten teacher)
But on our point, for those in the Company:
What are the issues?
What is the best approach?
(Warning: any variation from the point will be responded to with a long, verbose and boring quotation from an obscure Ostragothian military writer on the little-known battle of .........not to mention a narrative about when the writer and his wife went on a 5-minute "milk and cookie" strike against his neo-facist Kindagarten teacher)
Guest
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It is regretable that this topic of "do your job and stop nagging" has turned into WW3 between USA and Oz. Sick minds. It is sad but a fact that none of the chaps who talk about unity and sickouts would actually go ON STRIKE to win rights. Where were you when B scales were introduced? Benefits cut? ASL started? 27% slashed? Were you untied then?..... Will you ever be? that is my point and I hope that those with some brains would get the message at last and WAKE UP.
Thank you all for your contribution to this topic. I now sign off.
Thank you all for your contribution to this topic. I now sign off.
Guest
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Getting back to the original subject.Many moons ago a manager at Birdseed airways once gave me some wonderful advice : "If you dont like it, leave." He was most upset when I handed my notice in some time later! I left for HK.
Now back in dear old blighty the advice still stands. If conditions are so bad at CX may I offer folk to take up my advice?? Or maybe things arent as they seem.......
Now back in dear old blighty the advice still stands. If conditions are so bad at CX may I offer folk to take up my advice?? Or maybe things arent as they seem.......
Guest
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Yes, I do know what it is like to trade in my job for principle. I fought the evil Satan, Francisco Lorenzo, and won. Won you say? Yes indeed! I left with my head held high, my dignity intact and the ability to get a job somewhere else on another day. I did lose out monetarily; most of my retirement, my medical insurance, my house, the cars and a very few toys. But those are just 'things'. Replaceable. If you, Ace, place a higher premium on money than honor, you will always lose the battle because you will just lower the bar when management decides it's time to squeeze you again; rationalize away the pay cut by getting a check airman override or management position. No great victories are ever won without great sacrifice. Eleven years after beating Lorenzo it still isn’t possible to ride on a jumpseat and NOT have the old captain shake my hand and thank me for what I did in 1989. The new guys don’t get it. They’ve never seen a furloughed and they think that two or five or ten years to the left seat is normal. They don’t understand that the ONLY reason they enjoy high pay and good work rules is because a group of honorable men and women drew a line in the sand and said, “enough”.
Guest
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Hi Ace,
Seen the latest out of Atlanta? (todays news, "Delta pilots approve strike ballot").
Better call the Delta boys and tell them about 89'. Whilst you're at it ask how they managed to keep their pay and conditions so attractive for all these years?
Seen the latest out of Atlanta? (todays news, "Delta pilots approve strike ballot").
Better call the Delta boys and tell them about 89'. Whilst you're at it ask how they managed to keep their pay and conditions so attractive for all these years?
Guest
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Just in case Bus ace does get back to read this I would like you to try something for me bend over and touch your toes.
Can't do it can you!!
Not surprised with a bat shoved that far up your butt. But then anytime management decides to push it further up you stand there and say how great life is
Can't do it can you!!
Not surprised with a bat shoved that far up your butt. But then anytime management decides to push it further up you stand there and say how great life is
Guest
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I have to reply to CONAN, who is ill mannered and damn rude, on top of being a wee bit thick. Conan: - Please be kind enough to read the original posting to this topic, you may understand it if you read it more than once. After that, please gather your thoughts as to how to apply the topic to your current position in the company. You may then use the remaining capacity of the brain cell that you possess to think of a constructive reply, which may persuade your fellow workers of your opinion, if any. You see, the idea of those postings is to put a point of view across and generate a debate for or against. In your case lack of comprehension is dictating your replies.
Hope you can contribute to something in future.
BA
P.S. I have bent over as suggested, and managed to touch my toes. This makes the rest of your assumption invalid. So what other exercise would you like next?
Hope you can contribute to something in future.
BA
P.S. I have bent over as suggested, and managed to touch my toes. This makes the rest of your assumption invalid. So what other exercise would you like next?
Guest
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BUS ACE
I can't let this one pass, it's just too tempting, these are your exact words from your original post
"Wake up and be grateful that you have the best jobs in the world with the best pay and conditions. STOP NAGGING remember 1989 down under.
Well I don't consider pay cuts , continual degradation of my Conditions of service as the best job in the world. I ,unlike you, am prepared to stand up and do something about it. So whichever way you cut it, your first post was not an invitation for discussion, but rather a sermon to those of us who feel that enough is enough to accept our lot because we have this wonderful job with all these great perks. Keep practising the routine that I suggested earlier, you will need it soon enough.
I can't let this one pass, it's just too tempting, these are your exact words from your original post
"Wake up and be grateful that you have the best jobs in the world with the best pay and conditions. STOP NAGGING remember 1989 down under.
Well I don't consider pay cuts , continual degradation of my Conditions of service as the best job in the world. I ,unlike you, am prepared to stand up and do something about it. So whichever way you cut it, your first post was not an invitation for discussion, but rather a sermon to those of us who feel that enough is enough to accept our lot because we have this wonderful job with all these great perks. Keep practising the routine that I suggested earlier, you will need it soon enough.
Guest
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Busace is this your first jet job? You seem real pleased to be doing what you do and CX's obviously a better place than where you came from. Assuming I'm correct, and I may not be, the problem is that you can't compare a GA apprenticeship (or the military) with where you are now. Believe it or not, you are now in the top tier of the airline business. I'm not trying to sound self important but you should appreciate where you are. It's supposed to be the "big time"
We need to look forward not back. Other carriers offer their staff much better CONDITIONS than we get, for running in some cases, a much sloppier operation. We operate arguably the youngest fleet of widebodied A/C in the world. Our standards are up with the best carriers as our zero hull loss over the past quarter century plus attests. If we want to attract the right people to maintain that enviable record we need to improve our CONDITIONS to do so. We also need to improve our CONDITIONS if we want to retain the staff we have.
All I see is a continual reduction in the quality of my CONDITIONS. You may be happy comparing where you have come from but some of us have been here quite a while and want to retain what we have, improve to where we once were and have the same CONDITIONS for all; including, suprisingly, you!
I don't want to be rude to you but the word naive springs to mind.
We need to look forward not back. Other carriers offer their staff much better CONDITIONS than we get, for running in some cases, a much sloppier operation. We operate arguably the youngest fleet of widebodied A/C in the world. Our standards are up with the best carriers as our zero hull loss over the past quarter century plus attests. If we want to attract the right people to maintain that enviable record we need to improve our CONDITIONS to do so. We also need to improve our CONDITIONS if we want to retain the staff we have.
All I see is a continual reduction in the quality of my CONDITIONS. You may be happy comparing where you have come from but some of us have been here quite a while and want to retain what we have, improve to where we once were and have the same CONDITIONS for all; including, suprisingly, you!
I don't want to be rude to you but the word naive springs to mind.
Guest
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Thrust: Thank you for your comments. The answer to your first question is no. I have been in CX longer than you (most probably). I worked for the military, and for major air carriers. I am certainly not naïve, rather practical. I am being realistic here trying to tell those who don’t know what loosing a job means, and those who think the conditions are bad compared to other carriers, that: Yes the conditions are not as they were in 1990, but they are a lot better than other outfits. Do we let the company eat away more of the good stuff. Well we have so far BIG TIME, with the AOA’s blessing. The company will do what it can get away with. You have a union, let them negotiate better conditions. That’s why you pay them 1%. Going sick for a flight to punish the company is really childish and spineless. If one does not like the conditions, then for goodness sake leave and join the companies that you think are better. Rostering problems are not exclusive to CX, it is a worldwide problem. It will only be sorted if the union engages the company in a realistic dialogue. Not argue about 0.45 or so of an hour. You said that it was you who posted the “lets do it”. Then would you also lead the others and raise banners outside CX City demanding better conditions? Would anyone? The simple answer is NO because you and others would rather fight your cause by going sick, so no one can recognise you. I am not attacking any person here, if you think I am, then I apologise. I am being practical by advising all to wake-up.
Guest
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BA It is a pity we have people like you in the company. You aren't prepared to join the good fight but will take ALL the improvements we fight for, with open arms. If you think your conditions are just fine then ask the company to set your present contract in stone and leave us alone to fight for the young pilots behind us who arrive here on eroded contracts. You are as BLIND as those Captains that extended on reduced salary.
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" If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for everything "
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" If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for everything "
Guest
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If you have been here longer than me BA then you are well into your 12th year. If that is the case then you have put up with just as much cr@p as I have (or more). Once again I restate that we have to look forward to our future. I've had enough.
Any time the AOA takes a vote and the majority want to picket outside CX (or use industrial action to further our aims) I'm IN. I don't use sickness as a weapon or a roster adjustment tool BA and never have. By "lets do it" I refer to standing up to the bullies that you would rather cower from.
Any time the AOA takes a vote and the majority want to picket outside CX (or use industrial action to further our aims) I'm IN. I don't use sickness as a weapon or a roster adjustment tool BA and never have. By "lets do it" I refer to standing up to the bullies that you would rather cower from.