Resignations?

[AtRisk]

Heard rumours that almost all of the C&T crew is ready to resign from C&T. Who is going to train us for our upgrades? Who is going to get those much needed crews ready for the expansion?

[jagman]

You mean all those fine upstanding chaps who trained and checked out the entire ASL workforce (initially) have finally seen the light.
What did that little favour do for upgrades?
Maybe some of our esteemed contributers should look in a mirror....
Standby for howls of indignant protest.

[jumpseat]

Sorry Atrisk. The chaps who trained ASL have marginally less scruples than TT.
Not a hope in H@#$% of that lot doing anything for the common good!

[Panza]

I agree jagman. The check and training are only slightly below management on the popularity list. Their 10 and 15% pay increases are more precious to them than morals and their fellow pilots. They are so scared of RF that they bow to his every whim. It will be a LONG time before the C&T department gain back the respect they deserve.

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" If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for everything "

[Goroundflap]

I am disgusted at the last 3 posts, ASL was an HkAOA failure and therefore the responsibility belongs to the entire membership. It had nothing to do with C & T's. What would you have done if you where in their shoes? It was a simple choice train ASL or quit Cathay. Whilst there are always the odd bad apples in any group, most of our C & T's are first class. It sounds like you don't stand for much and have fallen quite a few times.


[This message has been edited by Goroundflap (edited 21 December 2000).]

[Thrust]

I guess alot (the junior majority) see the situation as so; If our check and training pilots had said NO as a group, we wouldn't have this problem now.

Sorry to get on top of a few but these are the facts. You have the keys to the expansion! A shame that some are chosen due to party lines as opposed to training ability.

Now thats the truth. Tough to the offended minority.

[BlunderBus]

You will, of course, remember the 'glory days' of ASL inception when C+T folks agreed to train ASL troops until a december deadline (ASL presumably to have their own trainers by then). When this was reached and they threw in the towel Ft.Oops(not a misprint)management said THAT contract was 'binding in honour only'!!another shining example of standupmanship. C+T folks offered to resign and fly the line ..the response to which was 'we have no line captain positions available at this time'!!!In other words resign from C+T and leave permanently! It does not take a genius to imagine the quality of training the poor buggers received from then on!(let's not forget who's fault it is ASL is here in the first place). I DO like the 'pull together' idea though and i feel the crews ARE getting closer to solidarity. The ranks of 'old boys' is thinning rapidly and with an ever younger(and more employable) workforce I think MNGMNT will be dealing with discontent on an annual basis unless they short out their s**t in the near future..what's it going to cost them to join the human race anyway? By the way I think some of our C+T guys are pretty good blokes all 'round...and they do it for the right reasons.

[billybob]

What we [the AOA] missed was instating a resolution months ago to ban anyone from volunteering for C&T positions. Just the last few months in the Airbus fleet alone 4 of our less esteemed bretheren volunteered for C&T. Where were these boys brains? A resolution, with a penalty of permanent expulsion from the AOA, would have made them think twice.
Should we bring up a prposal at the 20th Dec. meeting.

[Tom Tipper]

No No...come on guys, rather than disuniting ourselves further emphasis should be placed on how we are all in this together. Yes C&T can have an effective part in any resolution but don't forget the scare tactics they were subject to last time.

Suggest that greater concentration on unity is paramount here and the diviseveness of a few of these posts are unhelpful in spite of percieved actions in the past.

[Goroundflap]

Hey Billybob,

I suppose your next well thought out suggestion will be to ban f/o and Cmd upgrades as well. I'm sure that will go down well. Are all those people, who have recently been upgraded to Capts and F/O's, mindless fools as well? "Wake up and smell the coffee". We must all stick together for the common good of our profession. I'm sure you will find that the percentage of C & T's that went sick last year was similiar to that of the line pilots. I know for a fact that most of the Aust and NZ based C & T's went sick and some continue to be on a regular basis.
This thread is devisive and counter productive, may I suggest we end it now.

[This message has been edited by Goroundflap (edited 21 December 2000).]

[Panza]

I agree with 'goaroundflap' lets close this thread as enough has been said on the subject.

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" If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for everything "

[AtRisk]

Funny thing how this turned out. The main reason it was posted was to find out more about the rumours themselves, the truth of the rumours and how if the rumours are true how the blokes in C&T have come around to joining with the rest of the group. The intent of the WHO question was directed more at the managers who might be reading this post. It is interesting how so many people are willing to slag off on those who are willing to lend their efforts. Very interesting!

[Thrust]

I really shouldn't post after a million beers. My "peers" still make me sick at times.

Never forget though that accountability starts at the top



[This message has been edited by Thrust (edited 23 December 2000).]

[PheasantPlucker]

Well stop eating them!

[Healey]

I think it's about time alcohol/drug testing was used before people are allowed near a keyboard!

[Thrust]

It's a bad time of the year "austin", very stressful not knowing which party to go to next......I don't do drugs though.

[chat sei chat]

Yes there are great guys in C & T ... but, the big picture remains. If you have joined C & T in the last few years, YOU are sleeping with the enemy. Quislings. Tell you what; look in the mirror, and say these words... "I, through my actions, have endorsed management policy..."

Don't give us any specious rationalizations about normal seniority based Command or F/O upgrades... Enjoy the pieces of silver

[billybob]

To my pal Goaround. My point above was not to slag off any C&T on a personal level. It was merely that WE, as the AOA, can and do institute policy to "help" guide certain individuals who only concern themselves with their latest career move. Unfortunately they do not realize their move for a greater challenge and greater pay shows to management that all that harm they [ the management] have caused in the last 6 years or so can be carried on. That includes the threats and intimidation of the C&T folk!! If we had managed to get a policy in effect so that expansion up the ladder ceases for all members [temporarily at least] then I believe the company would have a much more painful fire on their arse to accomodate some much needed changes for ALL of us. The C&T types are some of the best and brightest and the company is working them to death. They, as well as everyone, deserves sensible rostering.
My earlier "have their heads examined" point about the volunteers is simply that I find it hard to understand how people would help out the Senior management of CX who have basically dug themselves a HUGE hole over the last 6 years. Not to mention threatening to fire those who would not agree to shoving the economic bat right up a goodly number of our members arse's.
I certainly don't HATE these individuals as I've had a few beers with them in the past and probably will again.
And may I wish you and yours a more stable and enjoyable 2001!!!
Billy the Bob