Contracts
Guest
Posts: n/a
Contracts
Recent articles from both the Company and the HKAOA make reference to our binding contract.
To remind both sides of how legally binding it is I recall the words of the DFO to me during last year's sick out.
When asked what would prevent the company from making further reductions to our COS if COS 99 was implemented he replied that nothing would and that the company can amend our contract as they see fit.
Thats why I intend to support industrial action at the next EGM.
[This message has been edited by CATHAY PATHETIC (edited 16 November 2000).]
[This message has been edited by CATHAY PATHETIC (edited 16 November 2000).]
To remind both sides of how legally binding it is I recall the words of the DFO to me during last year's sick out.
When asked what would prevent the company from making further reductions to our COS if COS 99 was implemented he replied that nothing would and that the company can amend our contract as they see fit.
Thats why I intend to support industrial action at the next EGM.
[This message has been edited by CATHAY PATHETIC (edited 16 November 2000).]
[This message has been edited by CATHAY PATHETIC (edited 16 November 2000).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
Can you explain what work-to-rule is?
I find it hard to understand how a non-legally binding contract can be accepted and that the laws in HK does not protect against it. I'm not taking sides here because I know very little about the whole situation. Since I'm applying to CX I want to find out as much about the company as I can and so far this is the biggest issue. Thanks.
I find it hard to understand how a non-legally binding contract can be accepted and that the laws in HK does not protect against it. I'm not taking sides here because I know very little about the whole situation. Since I'm applying to CX I want to find out as much about the company as I can and so far this is the biggest issue. Thanks.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Excuse my ignorance but since I'm applying to be a cadet I must find out one way or the other, here goes:
what are work-to-rule and contract compliance?
how does CX salary compare with other airlines? I saw the thread on people's salaries and it seems to me that CX is paying quite handsomely, am I missing something here?
what are work-to-rule and contract compliance?
how does CX salary compare with other airlines? I saw the thread on people's salaries and it seems to me that CX is paying quite handsomely, am I missing something here?
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think the words "Binding Contract" are one way only. CX appears to live by rules it makes up day to day - and the "Conditions of Service" mean very little in reality. Unless they are using (ie twisting) them to screw you over.
This applies to things other than pay & rostering as well. If it wasn't for the AOA we be in a real mess.
Back em up!
This applies to things other than pay & rostering as well. If it wasn't for the AOA we be in a real mess.
Back em up!
Guest
Posts: n/a
GURU, I thought that is a title of some one to be looked upon and mentored!
Do not compare CX salaries to some ATR or SAAB driver, compare our salaries, contract, benefits to other world class global airlines ( I will give you some help,( BA, AA, UA, DL, QF, FDX, UPS )
when you have more facts and more info, you will surely be more informed to make the proper decsion!
Go get a real flying job first, enjoy life for a few years on albeit a low salary, but satisfying career and then come here as a direct entry SO!
Do not compare CX salaries to some ATR or SAAB driver, compare our salaries, contract, benefits to other world class global airlines ( I will give you some help,( BA, AA, UA, DL, QF, FDX, UPS )
when you have more facts and more info, you will surely be more informed to make the proper decsion!
Go get a real flying job first, enjoy life for a few years on albeit a low salary, but satisfying career and then come here as a direct entry SO!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Guru, you ask reasonable questions and are to be commended for acessing CX prior to employment. Many people do not and are resentful of not knowing the facts after major decisions have been made.
Contract compliance IS work to rule. That is, we work our contract and do no more. We are not required to be contactable unless at work or on rosterted reserve duty. The rostering dept are in such a shambles that not being contactable to work on our days off makes things very difficult for the company. We do this to try to force change for the good, both for us, and the company. At present there is much waste of resources in our rostering practices.
If CX employed enough pilots to do the job without a constant requirement for our good will things would be ok. As it is our lives and the lives of our families are constantly in turmoil due to roster disruption.
In other Western countries working ones contract is the norm. In CX's eyes it makes us the emeny.
With regard to salary, yes you are missing something. An S/O with little experience is paid "quite handsomely" as you put it. The problem arises when that pilot has gained the experience to progress in the ranks and assumes greater responsibilites. His pay then lags behind our major competition. You should think here of disposable income. HK is a very expensive place to live. Also of major concern is our pension scheme for post 1993 officers which could be defined as an industry standard JOKE.
What you must understand is that the pilot group are the good guys here. We have the moral high ground so to speak and we want nothing more than what was taken from us by this and previous management regimes.
As an example of the moral issues; A HK court's Judge's decision on basing issues in mid 1990's stated quite clearly that the company only had a moral obligation to comply with its contract. Of course it had no morals and did not comply so officers got shafted over basings for the first time of many. This in theory can't happen to us again as we now have a "legally binding" contract on most issues. I for one can't see a problem by abiding by that contract until we can get it improved. Rostering issues are in the contract and there is a requirement for the company and its pilots to work it out. That does not mean we role over, play dead and let the company get everything it wants. Imposition of changes to work practices are from the dark ages and we won't accept it any longer. Either it's negotiated or not on!
There ends the sermon.
Contract compliance IS work to rule. That is, we work our contract and do no more. We are not required to be contactable unless at work or on rosterted reserve duty. The rostering dept are in such a shambles that not being contactable to work on our days off makes things very difficult for the company. We do this to try to force change for the good, both for us, and the company. At present there is much waste of resources in our rostering practices.
If CX employed enough pilots to do the job without a constant requirement for our good will things would be ok. As it is our lives and the lives of our families are constantly in turmoil due to roster disruption.
In other Western countries working ones contract is the norm. In CX's eyes it makes us the emeny.
With regard to salary, yes you are missing something. An S/O with little experience is paid "quite handsomely" as you put it. The problem arises when that pilot has gained the experience to progress in the ranks and assumes greater responsibilites. His pay then lags behind our major competition. You should think here of disposable income. HK is a very expensive place to live. Also of major concern is our pension scheme for post 1993 officers which could be defined as an industry standard JOKE.
What you must understand is that the pilot group are the good guys here. We have the moral high ground so to speak and we want nothing more than what was taken from us by this and previous management regimes.
As an example of the moral issues; A HK court's Judge's decision on basing issues in mid 1990's stated quite clearly that the company only had a moral obligation to comply with its contract. Of course it had no morals and did not comply so officers got shafted over basings for the first time of many. This in theory can't happen to us again as we now have a "legally binding" contract on most issues. I for one can't see a problem by abiding by that contract until we can get it improved. Rostering issues are in the contract and there is a requirement for the company and its pilots to work it out. That does not mean we role over, play dead and let the company get everything it wants. Imposition of changes to work practices are from the dark ages and we won't accept it any longer. Either it's negotiated or not on!
There ends the sermon.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said Thrust. If you are a smart undergraduate Guru, I would consider every option, not just aviation. It may seem like a real flash job from the outside, but you spend long nights flying aluminium tubes full of the great unwashed half way around the world, spend 24hrs on the ground at your "glossy" destination, feeling jet lagged out of your mind, then do it all again, and again, and again,....... Take it from someone who has been in the flying game for over 25yrs. Wash the stars from your eyes, and assess aviation and CX just as you would any other job, because, that is what it is. A job.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Guru; If you are from HK and you really like the idea of flying for THE Hong Kong airline (sorry KA) then by all means give it a try. Just make sure you have whatever you studied at uni to fall back on. I think you should look carefully at the thread that discusses LEPs (locally employed pilots). I for one certainly would not choose this career under those conditions. The only things that make CX pilots lives bearable in HK are the expat benefits (housing, schooling etc) that LEPs don't get. Think about it.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I really must attend more AOA committee meeting's jumpseat. As far as I'm concerned I'm working to the rule of my contract... not contactable outside of work hours. If there is more in OUR arsenal then great! What is it about pilots that makes us have to split hairs on everything?
