HKAOA committee ?
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HKAOA committee ?
Just would like to know if there is any one out there who like me would like to know what the f### the HKAOA is up up to .
This housing allowance is a croc of S###. if this is a democratic vote them WHY is the committee so proactivley supporting it ?
by telling us that they so strongly recommending that we vote for it ? its B#######
personally i think that the AOA COMMITTEE has been given an extra back hander
anyone else feel the same way ?
signed
DOJ
EARLY 2001
This housing allowance is a croc of S###. if this is a democratic vote them WHY is the committee so proactivley supporting it ?
by telling us that they so strongly recommending that we vote for it ? its B#######
personally i think that the AOA COMMITTEE has been given an extra back hander
anyone else feel the same way ?
signed
DOJ
EARLY 2001
Goat
Not sure your post was as cogent as you wanted it to be but I think I got the point.
As someone who has been associated with the HKAOA for more years than most, my view on what is going on is actually no clearer than yours. My tolerance for pain is however probably higher than it would be if I were 10 years younger.
I think Murray has a game plan that is organised and sensible but unfortunately I always come back to the same reality, something that the bulk of pilots now do not accept, and that is, it is far better to play upon management's good nature than it's dark side.
The body has decreed them the dark force and therefore the glass is always half empty rather than half full .
Nigel is gone but the AOA still has some ground to cover when it comes to getting a seat at the table. Senior management is still not amenable to an open book approach.
The history of this company is that more has always been achieved through positive discussion than confrontation. IMHO, that will not change in the next 5 years.
The 'new' AOA is aiming to get a seat at the table without overtly being seen to be capitulating. This is a delicate task. They have the elected people to do that but, if I can be frank, and without naming names, there is some office baggage that must be jettisoned. The current confusion is the result of an attempt at trade-off, again IMHO.
Not sure your post was as cogent as you wanted it to be but I think I got the point.
As someone who has been associated with the HKAOA for more years than most, my view on what is going on is actually no clearer than yours. My tolerance for pain is however probably higher than it would be if I were 10 years younger.
I think Murray has a game plan that is organised and sensible but unfortunately I always come back to the same reality, something that the bulk of pilots now do not accept, and that is, it is far better to play upon management's good nature than it's dark side.
The body has decreed them the dark force and therefore the glass is always half empty rather than half full .
Nigel is gone but the AOA still has some ground to cover when it comes to getting a seat at the table. Senior management is still not amenable to an open book approach.
The history of this company is that more has always been achieved through positive discussion than confrontation. IMHO, that will not change in the next 5 years.
The 'new' AOA is aiming to get a seat at the table without overtly being seen to be capitulating. This is a delicate task. They have the elected people to do that but, if I can be frank, and without naming names, there is some office baggage that must be jettisoned. The current confusion is the result of an attempt at trade-off, again IMHO.
Last edited by VR-HFX; 19th Feb 2004 at 08:44.
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I find it strange that the company has gone all-out to destroy the AOA through persistent and vehement attacks over the past years. The exodus of members has been carefully maneuvered by management and yet, here they are, "negotiating" with representatives of (by the company's own numbers) BARELY a majority of the aircrew.
The company has effectively disenfranchised almost half the aircrew. Don't be surprised if it's a "NO", Nick.
What will their (management) options be if the vote is a "NO"?
They can try harder for a better deal - not likely.
They can ask for a general ballot - puh-lease. That requires some cajones.
They can impose a new contract with a tried-and-true "Sign or you're fired" approach.
Bring it on fellas.
The company has effectively disenfranchised almost half the aircrew. Don't be surprised if it's a "NO", Nick.
What will their (management) options be if the vote is a "NO"?
They can try harder for a better deal - not likely.
They can ask for a general ballot - puh-lease. That requires some cajones.
They can impose a new contract with a tried-and-true "Sign or you're fired" approach.
Bring it on fellas.
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The AOA advice is that if the vote is no, the current COS does already allow unilateral reduction of allowance based on market changes 1999-date. No sign it or else deal needed
I.e. better to have a lubricated, negotiated lowering of allowance, than an unlubricated, un- negotiated
I.e. better to have a lubricated, negotiated lowering of allowance, than an unlubricated, un- negotiated
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Whilst I understand the hoi polloi voting down the housing scheme changes, even though I think they will still happen. I don't understand how people that ostensibly support the AOA themselves have driven another nail into the coffin. Why should the company bother to negotiate with an organisation that represents a minority of aircrew and an organisation that cannot even influence its own? The ball is firmly in the bean counters corner now and will come back at us with a lot of gusto. Did I hear a rumour that another pilots union is quietly gaining momentum?
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Here you go again !
What could the HKAOA members possibly get that IMPROVES their life from accepting this reduction in their conditions ??This does nothing to improve relationships and smells of something very nasty indeed. HKG property prices rising again, inflation reappearing & CX excellent profits despite the whining !
Meanwhile.........
* More inadvertent flap retractions on the airbus fleet
* Demolished undercarriage on A340 at Sydney
* Tail scrape at Auckland
So bad morale appears to be raising its ugly head in the form of Safety Issues and the AOA wants to ASSIST the company in further reducing conditions..........
Seriously folks ! This beggars belief !!!
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Oh, Capt White, come on
"* More inadvertent flap retractions on the airbus fleet
* Demolished undercarriage on A340 at Sydney
* Tail scrape at Auckland"
seem to me to be much more symptoms of incompetence or deficient training
To blame them on low morale that may or may not be caused by by a proposal to lower the Housing Allowance, (which I also disagree with), is something of a stretch for even the most strident of hard done bys.
"* More inadvertent flap retractions on the airbus fleet
* Demolished undercarriage on A340 at Sydney
* Tail scrape at Auckland"
seem to me to be much more symptoms of incompetence or deficient training
To blame them on low morale that may or may not be caused by by a proposal to lower the Housing Allowance, (which I also disagree with), is something of a stretch for even the most strident of hard done bys.
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Perhaps shortly refers to your memory capacity old bean...if you remember it was Jeff F, Brian T, and behind the scenes as ever Paul H who, BY THREATENING INDUSTRIAL ACTION, (not the spineless 'sickout' conceived by the recent incumbents), forced the DFO of the time to, wait for it, come to the AOA meeting on the strike vote to capitulate. Because he knew we were organised properly, and pissed off enough (over housing actually, due to increasing HK house prices, ring a bell?) to strike. (Don't imagine the peanut boy doing this somehow).
This was the foundation for 'A' scales which we all know and love........
So don't knock the plant life, and let him rest in peace on his farm in Canada.
This was the foundation for 'A' scales which we all know and love........
So don't knock the plant life, and let him rest in peace on his farm in Canada.
