DESO :-(
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TopTup,
by your own admission you have never or will never work for CX yet you come onto the FH forum spouting "FACT"??. You also say that your opinions are based on "an informed" opinion. What informed opinons are they then? The ones you hear from the regular 20-30 complainants on FH like our beloved Dan Buster who will complain at having to be told to wear a jacket whilst on duty and insult people like me who enjoy the job and the airline?
So once again, I will ask you the two questions you have failed to answer but have been happy to use in order to belittle the airline.
Number 1, what is the definition of "Just Another Airline". And number 2, apart from EY, what are the "other cadet schemes out there"? According to you, "there are far far better options(plural) out there".
Dan,
Seriously. Rather than writing on pprune, how about writing a resignation letter?
Whilst you may have your own personal issues, I really pity guys like you when you feel so bad that you have to insult those of us who like what we do and who we do it for. Why would you do this? Do you speak for all of us pilots? Are you hoping that we all come down to your low level of morale? Yes, that is really going to be a safe flightdeck isn't it?
Do us all a favour and pack your bags. You won't be missed.
by your own admission you have never or will never work for CX yet you come onto the FH forum spouting "FACT"??. You also say that your opinions are based on "an informed" opinion. What informed opinons are they then? The ones you hear from the regular 20-30 complainants on FH like our beloved Dan Buster who will complain at having to be told to wear a jacket whilst on duty and insult people like me who enjoy the job and the airline?
So once again, I will ask you the two questions you have failed to answer but have been happy to use in order to belittle the airline.
Number 1, what is the definition of "Just Another Airline". And number 2, apart from EY, what are the "other cadet schemes out there"? According to you, "there are far far better options(plural) out there".
Dan,
Seriously. Rather than writing on pprune, how about writing a resignation letter?
Whilst you may have your own personal issues, I really pity guys like you when you feel so bad that you have to insult those of us who like what we do and who we do it for. Why would you do this? Do you speak for all of us pilots? Are you hoping that we all come down to your low level of morale? Yes, that is really going to be a safe flightdeck isn't it?
Do us all a favour and pack your bags. You won't be missed.
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Bet5,
I take it (without having done my homework) that you haven't been here in the FH for very long. I too had the rose coloured specs on for a few years but you will see - this company eats away at you slowly but surely.
Before you go on the attack......I am happy in HKG....I enjoy my JOB but it took me a while to realise that it is exactly that...a job. Some never ever learn that. They scream the loudest and are "loyal" only to be regularly kicked by the master.
CX is definitely "trending" the wrong way (to borrow a popular ERAS term). Our COS are continuously under attack. I believe the COO recently said himself that the days of jobs for life are long gone. So what to do? Protect our COS as best we can including the COS of other groups like the Cadets. Rest assured that if they get a contract without housing that it will only be a few years before your precious housing goes away too!
When that happens I will pack up my belongings and leave along with a significant number of others.
CX had an incredible reputation. I think the point Dan is making is that it isn't anything special anymore....nice but not special ie. "Just another airline"
I take it (without having done my homework) that you haven't been here in the FH for very long. I too had the rose coloured specs on for a few years but you will see - this company eats away at you slowly but surely.
Before you go on the attack......I am happy in HKG....I enjoy my JOB but it took me a while to realise that it is exactly that...a job. Some never ever learn that. They scream the loudest and are "loyal" only to be regularly kicked by the master.
CX is definitely "trending" the wrong way (to borrow a popular ERAS term). Our COS are continuously under attack. I believe the COO recently said himself that the days of jobs for life are long gone. So what to do? Protect our COS as best we can including the COS of other groups like the Cadets. Rest assured that if they get a contract without housing that it will only be a few years before your precious housing goes away too!
When that happens I will pack up my belongings and leave along with a significant number of others.
CX had an incredible reputation. I think the point Dan is making is that it isn't anything special anymore....nice but not special ie. "Just another airline"
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tiger321...well written.
betpump5....No, I will not do your research for you. Admittedly I started to collate things but just can't be asked. You challenge what I write but have not (cannot?) rebut anything. Instead you want me regurgitate what everyone else seems to accept and understand but yourself. Read your own Crews News, AOA updates, market reports and comparisons, etc. As stated, I do not work for CX but am always interested to see what other airlines are up to and keep my ear to the ground for personal interest. I have friends at CX (hence my access to Crews News and AOA updates) and all state that it isn't what it used to be. I am yet to meet ONE CX pilot happy with SLS or CoS08, yet you state 99.9% are happy? That makes my dozen or so friends in a logistically uncommon and impossible group.
My phrase (which seems to have been well received and picked up on) "JUST ANOTHER AIRLINE" is of course subjective in nature. Personally I view airlines like Jetstar, Ryanair, etc as "just another airline". May I even add BA, QF, EK under that similar but still different (full service airline) banner. CX's T & C's were some of, if not "the" best for expat pilots looking for a long term career. All seem to see but you that these T & C's are going down hill at a great rate of knots. That to me means CX is drawing closer and closer to being just like such airlines.
Only perhaps 2-3 years ago a statement of "I got into / fly for CX" meant something as opposed to "I got into / fly for BA, QF, EK, Ryanair, Jetstar, Virgin....." CX paid the best (total T & C package) and so attracted the best. The way things are going I do not see that being the case for much longer.
Back to the thread.... DESO and those in the holding pool? I do not see the job they interviewed for being offered "if and when" they do call for a start date. I would love to be wrong.
I am happy that you enjoy your job. I sincerely think that you also need to remove your blinkers.
betpump5....No, I will not do your research for you. Admittedly I started to collate things but just can't be asked. You challenge what I write but have not (cannot?) rebut anything. Instead you want me regurgitate what everyone else seems to accept and understand but yourself. Read your own Crews News, AOA updates, market reports and comparisons, etc. As stated, I do not work for CX but am always interested to see what other airlines are up to and keep my ear to the ground for personal interest. I have friends at CX (hence my access to Crews News and AOA updates) and all state that it isn't what it used to be. I am yet to meet ONE CX pilot happy with SLS or CoS08, yet you state 99.9% are happy? That makes my dozen or so friends in a logistically uncommon and impossible group.
My phrase (which seems to have been well received and picked up on) "JUST ANOTHER AIRLINE" is of course subjective in nature. Personally I view airlines like Jetstar, Ryanair, etc as "just another airline". May I even add BA, QF, EK under that similar but still different (full service airline) banner. CX's T & C's were some of, if not "the" best for expat pilots looking for a long term career. All seem to see but you that these T & C's are going down hill at a great rate of knots. That to me means CX is drawing closer and closer to being just like such airlines.
Only perhaps 2-3 years ago a statement of "I got into / fly for CX" meant something as opposed to "I got into / fly for BA, QF, EK, Ryanair, Jetstar, Virgin....." CX paid the best (total T & C package) and so attracted the best. The way things are going I do not see that being the case for much longer.
Back to the thread.... DESO and those in the holding pool? I do not see the job they interviewed for being offered "if and when" they do call for a start date. I would love to be wrong.
I am happy that you enjoy your job. I sincerely think that you also need to remove your blinkers.
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Don..... The "realities"? Are you serious? Can you be? I am BEGGING you to show me where I am wrong, what I have misled you in? What haven't I a clue about? IF I am wrong then show some decency and point it out. I do not posses your arrogance to assume I am 100% right and all the world is wrong but me.
To state that the pilots starting at CX as DEC, DEFO, Cadet, DESO, etc do not know what they are are signing up for is stupid at best. Of course they do! No one denied that! What has been discussed is the degradation of T&C's at CX. That's IT! Are your comprehension skills THAT bad?
For the record, I have never had to pay for an endorsement. Lucky for me.
Those at CX signed up for a job under agreed T&C's. Those who interviewed for DESO positions did so for understood T7C's that they were sent by CX. Those T&C's are going downhill. You seem happy to allow that to happen. You think that those who speak up about it are some kind of low grade fool? "Run to an opportunity to fly a shiny jet...?" No young fellow. I started this (jet) occupation 30 or so years ago. What I DESPISE are those who do take a job under agreed terms and then complain about the job they asked for. (I believe this is what you are hinting at?) Even lower than them are those (like you?) who see things deteriorate and sit on the sidelines. Shows a yellow spine in my eyes.
I will always speak up and complain about spineless cowards who stand by and watch their profession deteriorate, all the while commenting from the cheap seats against those who do defend what they are entitled to.
DanBuster is right on the mark in my eyes. He shows far more "professionalism" than you seem to be capable of. If you don't stand for something then you stand for nothing.
(Have to sign off now as I need to go and fly my shiny 777! While I am sure you would prefer I did it for free, you are sorely mistaken.)
To state that the pilots starting at CX as DEC, DEFO, Cadet, DESO, etc do not know what they are are signing up for is stupid at best. Of course they do! No one denied that! What has been discussed is the degradation of T&C's at CX. That's IT! Are your comprehension skills THAT bad?
For the record, I have never had to pay for an endorsement. Lucky for me.
Those at CX signed up for a job under agreed T&C's. Those who interviewed for DESO positions did so for understood T7C's that they were sent by CX. Those T&C's are going downhill. You seem happy to allow that to happen. You think that those who speak up about it are some kind of low grade fool? "Run to an opportunity to fly a shiny jet...?" No young fellow. I started this (jet) occupation 30 or so years ago. What I DESPISE are those who do take a job under agreed terms and then complain about the job they asked for. (I believe this is what you are hinting at?) Even lower than them are those (like you?) who see things deteriorate and sit on the sidelines. Shows a yellow spine in my eyes.
I will always speak up and complain about spineless cowards who stand by and watch their profession deteriorate, all the while commenting from the cheap seats against those who do defend what they are entitled to.
DanBuster is right on the mark in my eyes. He shows far more "professionalism" than you seem to be capable of. If you don't stand for something then you stand for nothing.
(Have to sign off now as I need to go and fly my shiny 777! While I am sure you would prefer I did it for free, you are sorely mistaken.)
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Dan,
I am with you. I'm in the same cockpit as you, and I'm in the same union as you. This particular thread was started by swimmers in the DESO pool who were given bad news and wanted to report back to others who may have also been waiting in the pool.
This thread was not an excuse for uniformed individuals like Toptup to start spouting hearsay nonsense, even though they readily admit that they never have or will work for our airline. It was at this point that I decided to wade in with my replies. And by the way TopTup, apart from EY and CX, there are no other cadetships out there unless you are a national of a specific airline - Singapore Airlines, KLM, Lufthansa to name a few examples.
Just like Dan Buster, I do worry about my T&Cs being eroded in the future- but that is my problem. What I will never ever do is disparage the cadets who are working hard to get into this airline. To even predict (Tiger321) that the cadet scheme has set a precedent that us Captains and SFOs will lose our housing allowances is foolhardy, immature and frankly ridiculous. Just because our Cadet SOs are at the bottom of the pecking order does not give us the right to blame them for everything.
They are a product of the financial crisis, in other words airlines have looked at where they can cut costs and have done so in order to keep you and me in a job. We can not have it both ways. The result has been rather than recruiting pilots as DESOs and giving them housing allowances, CX has instead opted to take SOs from their cadet scheme. Cadet SOs and DESOs ultimately spend circa 3 years eating sandwiches and monitoring the magenta. So as a business, what is the cheapest option? Obviously the CPP. Now are you telling me that you wish to fight against this prudent option? Trust me Dan, it is that prudent option that will keep you and me in this job for many more years. So do you really want to fight this? Be careful what you wish for as it will probably come back at you.
When I fancy a laugh, I come onto FH and I see the same old complaints from the same 30-40 individuals who have decided to post on PPrune for the last 10 years of their lives. The other 2'500 of us don't bother. We are still in the union and we will always fight. We obvioulsy still fight for what is right. But the way we fight is with calm rational arguments that take in the bigger picture and the unfortunate realities of the world we live in today - and hence agree to schemes such as giving up one month's pay for the sake of our jobs.
What the 2'500 of us won't do is blame the troubles on hardworking cadets at FTA who are there taking an opportunity that is given to them, Air Pollution, having to wear blazers at work, the sunshine, the moonlight and the boogie. If I had the choice of working for an airline that will pay me HK$2M per year or an airline that has a prudent approach and coms up with cost-cutting initiatives, then I will always go for the latter. Becasue that is the option that will give me a job security.
By the way Dan, education allowance is given to our Cadets. Also saying that the cadets have no hope of getting an allowance is far from the mark. And benefits being taxed by the goverment isn't exactly something we can do anything about.
Just because I come here defending the cadet scheme and the cadets themsleves against simpletons like Toptup, please do not even dare for one second to question my integrity. I fight for every single cause you have listed, plus the fight for a housing allowance for our cadets. I now hope that YOU will join me in contradicting TopTups unfounded statement that we are becoming just another airline rather than concurring with him just to make you feel better about your complaints.
We are not just another airline or you wouldn't be fighting for us.
I am with you. I'm in the same cockpit as you, and I'm in the same union as you. This particular thread was started by swimmers in the DESO pool who were given bad news and wanted to report back to others who may have also been waiting in the pool.
This thread was not an excuse for uniformed individuals like Toptup to start spouting hearsay nonsense, even though they readily admit that they never have or will work for our airline. It was at this point that I decided to wade in with my replies. And by the way TopTup, apart from EY and CX, there are no other cadetships out there unless you are a national of a specific airline - Singapore Airlines, KLM, Lufthansa to name a few examples.
Just like Dan Buster, I do worry about my T&Cs being eroded in the future- but that is my problem. What I will never ever do is disparage the cadets who are working hard to get into this airline. To even predict (Tiger321) that the cadet scheme has set a precedent that us Captains and SFOs will lose our housing allowances is foolhardy, immature and frankly ridiculous. Just because our Cadet SOs are at the bottom of the pecking order does not give us the right to blame them for everything.
They are a product of the financial crisis, in other words airlines have looked at where they can cut costs and have done so in order to keep you and me in a job. We can not have it both ways. The result has been rather than recruiting pilots as DESOs and giving them housing allowances, CX has instead opted to take SOs from their cadet scheme. Cadet SOs and DESOs ultimately spend circa 3 years eating sandwiches and monitoring the magenta. So as a business, what is the cheapest option? Obviously the CPP. Now are you telling me that you wish to fight against this prudent option? Trust me Dan, it is that prudent option that will keep you and me in this job for many more years. So do you really want to fight this? Be careful what you wish for as it will probably come back at you.
When I fancy a laugh, I come onto FH and I see the same old complaints from the same 30-40 individuals who have decided to post on PPrune for the last 10 years of their lives. The other 2'500 of us don't bother. We are still in the union and we will always fight. We obvioulsy still fight for what is right. But the way we fight is with calm rational arguments that take in the bigger picture and the unfortunate realities of the world we live in today - and hence agree to schemes such as giving up one month's pay for the sake of our jobs.
What the 2'500 of us won't do is blame the troubles on hardworking cadets at FTA who are there taking an opportunity that is given to them, Air Pollution, having to wear blazers at work, the sunshine, the moonlight and the boogie. If I had the choice of working for an airline that will pay me HK$2M per year or an airline that has a prudent approach and coms up with cost-cutting initiatives, then I will always go for the latter. Becasue that is the option that will give me a job security.
By the way Dan, education allowance is given to our Cadets. Also saying that the cadets have no hope of getting an allowance is far from the mark. And benefits being taxed by the goverment isn't exactly something we can do anything about.
Just because I come here defending the cadet scheme and the cadets themsleves against simpletons like Toptup, please do not even dare for one second to question my integrity. I fight for every single cause you have listed, plus the fight for a housing allowance for our cadets. I now hope that YOU will join me in contradicting TopTups unfounded statement that we are becoming just another airline rather than concurring with him just to make you feel better about your complaints.
We are not just another airline or you wouldn't be fighting for us.
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Bet5,
You miss my point completely and show your lack of FH experience at the same time.
The CEP's have never received any housing as they were recruited with a HKG connection ie. had to have a HKID card. The Intl cadets, well that is something entirely different. I don't believe that it has been decided whether they will be offered housing or not yet (PW mentioned talks with the company about this in a recent update/letter).
I fail to see how you can think that this cadet scheme is the future of aviation. What is going to happen is that in 7 or 8 years time these blokes are going to have some RHS time in the logbook and if they are on a contract with no housing they will be looking elsewhere. Why should they stick around in HKG? Result.....CX trains pilots for the airlines that offer expat benefits. NR and his crew don't mind because thay are no longer at CX but with one of Swires other setups.
You may have read about the DFO's recent comments regarding expats and housing. Now S/O's (read intl cadets) probably will be on contracts without it. I have been around long enough to see where this is meant to lead to......it is our job to ensure that never happens.
Like I said, I too like my JOB but if it is further eroded in years to come (read no/severly reduced housing) I simply pack my family up and leave.
We are not just another airline.....yet, but the long term prognosis isn't exciting me.
You miss my point completely and show your lack of FH experience at the same time.
The CEP's have never received any housing as they were recruited with a HKG connection ie. had to have a HKID card. The Intl cadets, well that is something entirely different. I don't believe that it has been decided whether they will be offered housing or not yet (PW mentioned talks with the company about this in a recent update/letter).
I fail to see how you can think that this cadet scheme is the future of aviation. What is going to happen is that in 7 or 8 years time these blokes are going to have some RHS time in the logbook and if they are on a contract with no housing they will be looking elsewhere. Why should they stick around in HKG? Result.....CX trains pilots for the airlines that offer expat benefits. NR and his crew don't mind because thay are no longer at CX but with one of Swires other setups.
You may have read about the DFO's recent comments regarding expats and housing. Now S/O's (read intl cadets) probably will be on contracts without it. I have been around long enough to see where this is meant to lead to......it is our job to ensure that never happens.
Like I said, I too like my JOB but if it is further eroded in years to come (read no/severly reduced housing) I simply pack my family up and leave.
We are not just another airline.....yet, but the long term prognosis isn't exciting me.
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One at a time then that's me done.... head starting to hurt from the brick wall I am head-butting.
Sir Don (sad really such a fool takes the username of a legend):
Am back from my flight you'll be happy to hear! If you need some tips on the 777, let me know. So, my information from pprune? HA! This is one of the LAST places I seek a balanced opinion! As per my last post(s), my opinions come from CX's published journals, the HKAOA, the statements released to the public, chats with my (quite senior) colleagues at CX and the general press. To call pprune a bastion of unbiassed and fair opinion is as farcical as is your complete inability to raise any form of decent argument. State the place where I (QUOTE from you) "admit you haven't got first hand experience other than PPrune..." You make up rubbish to service an ego. Your statement makes you a liar.
BP5:
I will concede that I was in error claiming there were many other cadetships offering better T&C's if you take into account the need to be a national. No problem..... Apologies. Tell me where is my hearsay evidence? Like Don, can you not read what I wrote? Did you not read the latest Crews News? The HKAOA newsletters about your incremental bonus that you do not get as opposed to what management have dished out to themselves? Hearsay? Where? When the printed word becomes hearsay then logic is doomed.
BUT you to me are the lowest of the low. You sit back and happily allow and whats more encourage others to take a hit a hit for you, just so you can stay in your ivory castle, paid for by CX. You try to entice others to do the same! By your own admission, you are happy when others carry the burden of an economic downturn just so you can have your skim latte on a regular basis. "They are the product of a financial crisis". You are the product of an arrogant piece of dirt that borders on being labelled a scab. Yep... you've struck a nerve. You will merrily go on your way whilst others receive less so you may benefit. So, as you put it, don't EVER fight to try to get the cadets a better package on par with what you get! After all, YOU may be affected! Oh My God! And then you have the arrogance to try to buddy up to those who do have the professionalism and integrity to stand up against the downward trend of T&C's. Yes, sir. You take the cake.
And, you LIAR.... where have I ONCE denounced those entering CX from the CPP program? I wish them only the best of luck. I do not agree with what CX have done but it is the best (in their eyes) option for a long term career, then I sincerely hope they get the most from a career with CX. Hell, with the likes YOU at CX standing back to let them suffer from the financial downturn in order to keep you happy (as you put it), they will need all the luck possible. Heaven forbid YOU come to the aid of a colleague if there could EVER be a risk that you are affected! By your own admission, daddy paid for your type rating at the age of 19 onto a 732. You came to CX as a DEFO, now living in HK on the full expat package with respect to your seniority. You then sit on the sidelines and sip your chardonay content that others suffer for you. Yes, they come to CX fully aware of the package but that does not give you the right to wallow in your conceited ivory tower at their expense. My comment about the CPP implementation is only that it is further evidence of the downward trend of T&C's at CX.
So, finally:
CADETS - good luck. I hope you meet more Dan Busters at CX than BP5's. Because, when the chips are down I know who I'd rely on.
DESO's - good luck. Hopefully CX will see your experience is worth more than a potential short term share price gain.
Sir Don (sad really such a fool takes the username of a legend):
Am back from my flight you'll be happy to hear! If you need some tips on the 777, let me know. So, my information from pprune? HA! This is one of the LAST places I seek a balanced opinion! As per my last post(s), my opinions come from CX's published journals, the HKAOA, the statements released to the public, chats with my (quite senior) colleagues at CX and the general press. To call pprune a bastion of unbiassed and fair opinion is as farcical as is your complete inability to raise any form of decent argument. State the place where I (QUOTE from you) "admit you haven't got first hand experience other than PPrune..." You make up rubbish to service an ego. Your statement makes you a liar.
BP5:
I will concede that I was in error claiming there were many other cadetships offering better T&C's if you take into account the need to be a national. No problem..... Apologies. Tell me where is my hearsay evidence? Like Don, can you not read what I wrote? Did you not read the latest Crews News? The HKAOA newsletters about your incremental bonus that you do not get as opposed to what management have dished out to themselves? Hearsay? Where? When the printed word becomes hearsay then logic is doomed.
BUT you to me are the lowest of the low. You sit back and happily allow and whats more encourage others to take a hit a hit for you, just so you can stay in your ivory castle, paid for by CX. You try to entice others to do the same! By your own admission, you are happy when others carry the burden of an economic downturn just so you can have your skim latte on a regular basis. "They are the product of a financial crisis". You are the product of an arrogant piece of dirt that borders on being labelled a scab. Yep... you've struck a nerve. You will merrily go on your way whilst others receive less so you may benefit. So, as you put it, don't EVER fight to try to get the cadets a better package on par with what you get! After all, YOU may be affected! Oh My God! And then you have the arrogance to try to buddy up to those who do have the professionalism and integrity to stand up against the downward trend of T&C's. Yes, sir. You take the cake.
And, you LIAR.... where have I ONCE denounced those entering CX from the CPP program? I wish them only the best of luck. I do not agree with what CX have done but it is the best (in their eyes) option for a long term career, then I sincerely hope they get the most from a career with CX. Hell, with the likes YOU at CX standing back to let them suffer from the financial downturn in order to keep you happy (as you put it), they will need all the luck possible. Heaven forbid YOU come to the aid of a colleague if there could EVER be a risk that you are affected! By your own admission, daddy paid for your type rating at the age of 19 onto a 732. You came to CX as a DEFO, now living in HK on the full expat package with respect to your seniority. You then sit on the sidelines and sip your chardonay content that others suffer for you. Yes, they come to CX fully aware of the package but that does not give you the right to wallow in your conceited ivory tower at their expense. My comment about the CPP implementation is only that it is further evidence of the downward trend of T&C's at CX.
So, finally:
CADETS - good luck. I hope you meet more Dan Busters at CX than BP5's. Because, when the chips are down I know who I'd rely on.
DESO's - good luck. Hopefully CX will see your experience is worth more than a potential short term share price gain.
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How long does it take for a Cadet to become SO? and then how long before he becomes FO?
How many current SOs needs to upgrade before CX will consider hiring DEFOs?
Who has the best chance of getting hired in the future (2012+)? DESOs or DEFOs in the pool?
How many current SOs needs to upgrade before CX will consider hiring DEFOs?
Who has the best chance of getting hired in the future (2012+)? DESOs or DEFOs in the pool?
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Milpilot,
Apart from your first question (where the answer can be found on the CX Website if you bothered removing your finger out of your backside), the remaining questions you pose are ridiculous.
TopTup,
You do not work for us and have no intention of working for us. Therefore your tiresome musings are of little consequence to any of us. I bid you farewell from the FH. Please do not return.
Apart from your first question (where the answer can be found on the CX Website if you bothered removing your finger out of your backside), the remaining questions you pose are ridiculous.
TopTup,
You do not work for us and have no intention of working for us. Therefore your tiresome musings are of little consequence to any of us. I bid you farewell from the FH. Please do not return.
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Milpilot
It looks like CX will be getting the short Cadet course approved very soon. This course is for applicants with Commercial or ATPL and some form of experience. This course will be not that much longer than a DESO course and the main advantage for CX will be that no housing will be paid.
If this course will be approved and CX finds enough qualified applicants to fill these courses, the DESO/DEFO program will be dead. It comes down to supply and demand, if nobody applies for the short program, DE pilots will be needed.
It looks like CX will be getting the short Cadet course approved very soon. This course is for applicants with Commercial or ATPL and some form of experience. This course will be not that much longer than a DESO course and the main advantage for CX will be that no housing will be paid.
If this course will be approved and CX finds enough qualified applicants to fill these courses, the DESO/DEFO program will be dead. It comes down to supply and demand, if nobody applies for the short program, DE pilots will be needed.
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It makes sence that DESO would then be dead, but what about DEFO (Who doesn't get housing)? Wouldn't they still need people to join directly to bases in times of rapid expansion?
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I don't think that many people would ruin their careers by not being able to fly at all, just to join CX as a SO not flying anything for 5 years. I guess the company can try, but it seems like a massive waste of resources. Additionally, there will be no need for DEFO's as there are plenty of qualified people already at CX. Any expansion will be filled by SO's.... the DEFO was a way to reduce cost, not get qualified people in the airline... despite what the managers lurking on this board will spout.
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Milpilot,
the reason why your questons were ridiculous is because you write them as if to expect a definite reply by one of the hearsayers on pprune.
How long it takes for a Cadet to become an SO and an SO an FO can all be found on either the website or the use of the search engine. But since you can't be bothered, the CPP is a 60 week course and a waiting period from graduation of anywhere between a few weeks and a few months before the official start date. SO to JFO should not really be more than 3 years but is taking 4 at present. JFO to FO should take 9 months to a year but this is anyone's guess at the moment.
In terms of your other questions, firstly CX do not "need" to promote SOs to FOs before a DEFOs are needed. In fact the two don't even belong in the same equation. The DEFO will always be there in dribs and drabs depending on very many factors.
Who has the best chance for 2012, DESO or DEFO, again is anyone's guess. If the bean counters have predicted the markets right for the next 2-3 years and have relayed the correct information to Recruitment, then the SO needs will be supplied from the CPP. Basically, you won't get anywhere close to an answer to this question.
In terms of the"short cadet course", I'm not quite sure what GTC means by "very soon". If you mean in the next 2-3 years, then you may be right. Anytime earlier is wrong.
the reason why your questons were ridiculous is because you write them as if to expect a definite reply by one of the hearsayers on pprune.
How long it takes for a Cadet to become an SO and an SO an FO can all be found on either the website or the use of the search engine. But since you can't be bothered, the CPP is a 60 week course and a waiting period from graduation of anywhere between a few weeks and a few months before the official start date. SO to JFO should not really be more than 3 years but is taking 4 at present. JFO to FO should take 9 months to a year but this is anyone's guess at the moment.
In terms of your other questions, firstly CX do not "need" to promote SOs to FOs before a DEFOs are needed. In fact the two don't even belong in the same equation. The DEFO will always be there in dribs and drabs depending on very many factors.
Who has the best chance for 2012, DESO or DEFO, again is anyone's guess. If the bean counters have predicted the markets right for the next 2-3 years and have relayed the correct information to Recruitment, then the SO needs will be supplied from the CPP. Basically, you won't get anywhere close to an answer to this question.
In terms of the"short cadet course", I'm not quite sure what GTC means by "very soon". If you mean in the next 2-3 years, then you may be right. Anytime earlier is wrong.
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CX will need to upgrade SO's before hiring DEFO's very soon. Right now, they are trying to get away with it thinking it is separate despite very clear contracts. In fact, if you are an ATPL and come to Hong Kong with no housing, you could be here a very long time because the new contract does not provide for Bypass pay for a very long time. It would be a waste of time to even consider coming to CX with any experience at all, considering the asian airline opportunites that will be available elsewhere. And, even though they water down the contract so much, CX will still try to not honor their contract with you!!! Why bother!!!!
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I am talking months not years for the short course CAD approval. Probably March if the rumours are true. The short cadet course is a way to hire pilots who previously fit into the DESO category and CX is saving the housing. As I said before, it all depends on supply and demand. As long as these courses can be filled with similar qualified applicants than previous DESO, CX will not hire anyone on expatriate terms.