ASIC Renewal: Worth it?
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ASIC Renewal: Worth it?
So the first-generation ASICs are coming up for renewal now.
If you're a PPL flying mainly in country areas, the odds are that no one has ever looked at your ASIC. You wear it airside because you're legally supposed to, but it makes you feel like a dork.
Are you going to renew it?
Seems to me, the cost and considerable hassle of renewal is greater than the cost of any non-compliance penalty times the very small probability of being caught with an out-of-date ASIC (again, if you're flying as a hobbyist in country areas).
The old one looks fine from a distance, and any officious types can probably be made to go away with the statement that, "Ah, mate, my renewal's taking forever," or "Sorry -- left it in my other pants -- here's my driver's licence."
What do you think?
If you're a PPL flying mainly in country areas, the odds are that no one has ever looked at your ASIC. You wear it airside because you're legally supposed to, but it makes you feel like a dork.
Are you going to renew it?
Seems to me, the cost and considerable hassle of renewal is greater than the cost of any non-compliance penalty times the very small probability of being caught with an out-of-date ASIC (again, if you're flying as a hobbyist in country areas).
The old one looks fine from a distance, and any officious types can probably be made to go away with the statement that, "Ah, mate, my renewal's taking forever," or "Sorry -- left it in my other pants -- here's my driver's licence."
What do you think?
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Have to agree with your thoughts......and yes the system is a joke at best, however, while you might get away with a recently expired one if your new one is delayed, that would not be for long.
If you go to places where you need one, for the bit of dicking around and the $$$ I would suggest you update it. Coz its gonna be a bad day when some power tripped security nazi gets ya
.
J
If you go to places where you need one, for the bit of dicking around and the $$$ I would suggest you update it. Coz its gonna be a bad day when some power tripped security nazi gets ya
.J
Do you need to renew your driver's licence, pilot medical etc, etc etc?
NO - only if a copper etc asks you for it, or you have a prang, etc, etc - then the sh*t will hit the fan big time.
Dr
NO - only if a copper etc asks you for it, or you have a prang, etc, etc - then the sh*t will hit the fan big time.
Dr
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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No you don't need to renew your ASIC and no issueing authority will chase you up to renew it as the whole process starts again each time. If flying to a non security controlled airport, there is no requirement. However just about any airport that has fuel available and regular charter services will be security controlled.
As for never being asked to show one at some of the more remote strips, consider this hypothetical; You arrive in with your familiy in your 4 or 6 seater at a Security Controlled Airport and someone (refueller, airline ground staff, maintenance staff) asks you for your ASIC. Contrary to Jabawocky's statement, it does not have to be a security or police officer to ask you for your ASIC. Any airline or airport employee can ask to see it. If you don't have one, this might result in a report being sent off to DOTARS. You will also probably find yourself on the other side of the fence from your aircraft and made to stay there if the airport security control staff want to enforce ATSRs to the letter of the law.
DOTARS have been very clever in all this and made the aerodrome operators and airlines responsible through their own TSPs, for the maintenance of ALL applicable security aspects.
Like the Dr says, you will probably get away with it for a long time, but don't go crying at the first airport where you get pulled up for not having one and possibly being denied airside access. I personlly don't think they achieve much and hate even more being part of the enforcement process. But like it or not, they are here and given the government's expenditure on departments set up to run ASIC / MSIC, ie DOTARS and AG, they will be around for a very long time.
As for never being asked to show one at some of the more remote strips, consider this hypothetical; You arrive in with your familiy in your 4 or 6 seater at a Security Controlled Airport and someone (refueller, airline ground staff, maintenance staff) asks you for your ASIC. Contrary to Jabawocky's statement, it does not have to be a security or police officer to ask you for your ASIC. Any airline or airport employee can ask to see it. If you don't have one, this might result in a report being sent off to DOTARS. You will also probably find yourself on the other side of the fence from your aircraft and made to stay there if the airport security control staff want to enforce ATSRs to the letter of the law.
DOTARS have been very clever in all this and made the aerodrome operators and airlines responsible through their own TSPs, for the maintenance of ALL applicable security aspects.
Like the Dr says, you will probably get away with it for a long time, but don't go crying at the first airport where you get pulled up for not having one and possibly being denied airside access. I personlly don't think they achieve much and hate even more being part of the enforcement process. But like it or not, they are here and given the government's expenditure on departments set up to run ASIC / MSIC, ie DOTARS and AG, they will be around for a very long time.
Last edited by Islander Jock; 2nd Sep 2007 at 02:18.
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Do you need to renew your driver's licence, pilot medical etc, etc etc?
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Well, if you don't own an aircraft, the renting place will probably ask to see your medical, logbook, and licence before they let you go. I have never been asked for my ASIC by a renter.
If they catch you...what happens? There's a fine and some paperwork? Gosh. Let's avoid that by paying a lot of money and doing a lot of paperwork.
If they catch you...what happens? There's a fine and some paperwork? Gosh. Let's avoid that by paying a lot of money and doing a lot of paperwork.
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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G'day Crosshair,
Very interesting point you raise about flying schools and renting of aeroplanes. They are probably under no legal obligation to check your ASIC but consider a scenario that occurred recently where an o'seas pilot was hired an aircraft without an ASIC and proceded into a security controlled airport. Ultimately it is up to PIC to ensure he has all appropriate licences and documents for the flight, however it could turn into a very expensive aircraft recovery job by the flying school concerned because they failed to exercise the slightest duty of care prior to hiring out the aircraft.
Maybe a fine, lots of paperwork and certainly your name flagged up on the database when you do apply for an ASIC. Operating without an ASIC is one of those "aviation security offences" which will automatically disqualify you. Give it a go and let us all know how you get on.
Very interesting point you raise about flying schools and renting of aeroplanes. They are probably under no legal obligation to check your ASIC but consider a scenario that occurred recently where an o'seas pilot was hired an aircraft without an ASIC and proceded into a security controlled airport. Ultimately it is up to PIC to ensure he has all appropriate licences and documents for the flight, however it could turn into a very expensive aircraft recovery job by the flying school concerned because they failed to exercise the slightest duty of care prior to hiring out the aircraft.
Maybe a fine, lots of paperwork and certainly your name flagged up on the database when you do apply for an ASIC. Operating without an ASIC is one of those "aviation security offences" which will automatically disqualify you. Give it a go and let us all know how you get on.
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I know a bloke who had his ASIC disqualified for 3 months due to not having it displayed correctly (in his pocket) and giving the security chap a hard time when asked to produce it.
As he requires the ASIC to produce his income, a day later he was issued a TEMPORARY ASIC to get him through the next 3 months.
How about a real simple solution to all this and it's 100% effective inside 30 seconds.
On the count of 3 we all chuck em in the bin.
We've all demonstated we can rise to the intelligence of sheep by complying in the first place, how about we do it again but in reverse format.
As he requires the ASIC to produce his income, a day later he was issued a TEMPORARY ASIC to get him through the next 3 months.
How about a real simple solution to all this and it's 100% effective inside 30 seconds.
On the count of 3 we all chuck em in the bin.
We've all demonstated we can rise to the intelligence of sheep by complying in the first place, how about we do it again but in reverse format.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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On the count of 3 we all chuck em in the bin.
Have'nt seen that displayed (properly) since the days of the Vietnam Moratorium (sp) demonstrations,not that I agreed with it at the time though.
I agree 100% with your sentiments, however I suspect persuading everyone to comply would be attempting to push the proverbial uphill!
Originally Posted by crosshair
So the first-generation ASICs are coming up for renewal now.
Before that were FAC ID cards, at the princely sum of $40 
I suspect your assertion that yours are "first generation" may be stretching the facts a little
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Asic - the great con job and ripoff!!
Asic - The Great Con Job
AUSTRALIAN ASIC - The Big Con Job
Well, I totally agree with Transport Security, however the ASIC is one of the greatest con jobs bestowed upon the Australian Aviation Industry EVER!
Division 3.2, subsection 3.05 of the Transport Security Regulations 2005 EXEMPT and I mean EXEMPT the crew of FOREIGN AIRLINES from having an Australian issued ASIC!
NO BACKGROUND CHECKS...NO ASIO CLEARANCE...NO AFP CHECK...NO CRIMMINAL HISTORY...HA..HA..HA
They like everybody else in the Aviation World (except Australia)only have to display a COMPANY ISSUED ID CARD that costs lest than $10 and is usually valid for 5 years.
Well mateys.....these airlines (foreign) carried more than 20 million passengers IN/OUT of Australia LAST YEAR!!!!!! and in BIG PLANES and NO ASIC crap.
Write to your Federal Member of Parliament and get the Regs changed....why do we have to put up with this crap in Australia....if you are approved to operate an aeroplane in Australia then the COMPANY should be able to issue THEIR OWN ID CARD....NO MORE WANK ASIC'S....THATS THE WAY IT IS ALL OVER THE WORLD...
And I now suspect the reason behind the ASIC/AVID has nothing to do with security/terrorists etc the great con job....no, I now suspect its for the new Drug and Alcohol Regs......beware its going to be <0.02% coming your way....by the way the US is 0.04% BAC....250,000 aircraft !!!
And the ASIC system is so secure you can download the specs for making one on page 205 of the Transport Security Regs 2005 available on the DOTARS website......oh yes a very secure system !!!!!
and for the disbelievers, I am airside in the heart of Europe with my company issued ID card !!!
How about a NATIONAL NO ASIC DAY and the only aeroplanes flying will be the Foreign Airlines....what would the Minister say to the public then as he leaves Parliament House for the last time!!
AUSTRALIAN ASIC - The Big Con Job
Well, I totally agree with Transport Security, however the ASIC is one of the greatest con jobs bestowed upon the Australian Aviation Industry EVER!
Division 3.2, subsection 3.05 of the Transport Security Regulations 2005 EXEMPT and I mean EXEMPT the crew of FOREIGN AIRLINES from having an Australian issued ASIC!
NO BACKGROUND CHECKS...NO ASIO CLEARANCE...NO AFP CHECK...NO CRIMMINAL HISTORY...HA..HA..HA
They like everybody else in the Aviation World (except Australia)only have to display a COMPANY ISSUED ID CARD that costs lest than $10 and is usually valid for 5 years.
Well mateys.....these airlines (foreign) carried more than 20 million passengers IN/OUT of Australia LAST YEAR!!!!!! and in BIG PLANES and NO ASIC crap.
Write to your Federal Member of Parliament and get the Regs changed....why do we have to put up with this crap in Australia....if you are approved to operate an aeroplane in Australia then the COMPANY should be able to issue THEIR OWN ID CARD....NO MORE WANK ASIC'S....THATS THE WAY IT IS ALL OVER THE WORLD...
And I now suspect the reason behind the ASIC/AVID has nothing to do with security/terrorists etc the great con job....no, I now suspect its for the new Drug and Alcohol Regs......beware its going to be <0.02% coming your way....by the way the US is 0.04% BAC....250,000 aircraft !!!
And the ASIC system is so secure you can download the specs for making one on page 205 of the Transport Security Regs 2005 available on the DOTARS website......oh yes a very secure system !!!!!
and for the disbelievers, I am airside in the heart of Europe with my company issued ID card !!!
How about a NATIONAL NO ASIC DAY and the only aeroplanes flying will be the Foreign Airlines....what would the Minister say to the public then as he leaves Parliament House for the last time!!
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Guys, remember the AVID and ASIC are different and serve similar functions. You have to have / need / require an AVID, whereas the ASIC is optional, depending on where you're going.
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VH-XXX, fair enough but unless a pilot can state categorically that he/she WILL NOT fly to a security controlled airport at any time, your advice is flawed.
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On the count of 3 we all chuck em in the bin.
When the *%&@#(# thing expired I sent it back to CASA.
Whilst I'd like to argue with the DOTARS roving stormtroopers or their delegates if I'm challenged, I know that they will invoke the vee are just following zee orders argument, so the @)$*% system needs to be changed at a point higher up the food chain.
Write (keep writing) to the idiotic politicians, folks.
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Short Changed
The year we were all suposed to have 'the card' I applied in May of that year, and received it very late December that same year, BUT, it was dated October as the renewal time. It is now due next month so I have been short changed three months. I have never used it except for an ID card at airline terminals, and our aerodrome is suposed to be a security area, but dose not have a compleat security fence system.
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This is what I like to see: civil disobedience! I have always been a member of the resistance because I have a moral objection to the ASIC and AVID duplication. Why should I need one security check to fly the aeroplane (AVID) and another security check (ASIC) to walk across the tarmac? In reply to this question, DOTARS said that this was impossible because:
(a) the check requirements were different, and
(b) ASICs were issued by DOTARS (and other agencies) and AVIDs by CASA.
Any thoughts of making the requirements the same were dismissed out of hand with no logical response other than "the government is committed to an increase in security ..." and so forth.
As of today, we have Auscheck up and running (supposedly). Auscheck is one agency for doing all background checks for ASICs and MSICs. Note: AVID checks don't rate a mention although the legislation is broad enough to cover this expansion. We are in the position now where we could have Auscheck do one check for everything, which halves the cost to the consumer.
Is this likely to happen? I am cynical enough to suggest not.
Walrus
(a) the check requirements were different, and
(b) ASICs were issued by DOTARS (and other agencies) and AVIDs by CASA.
Any thoughts of making the requirements the same were dismissed out of hand with no logical response other than "the government is committed to an increase in security ..." and so forth.
As of today, we have Auscheck up and running (supposedly). Auscheck is one agency for doing all background checks for ASICs and MSICs. Note: AVID checks don't rate a mention although the legislation is broad enough to cover this expansion. We are in the position now where we could have Auscheck do one check for everything, which halves the cost to the consumer.
Is this likely to happen? I am cynical enough to suggest not.
Walrus
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1946
I'll see your 3 months and raise you 6 (or 9) months.
6 months, because I applied for an ASIC 6 months after I had an AVID check, and 9 months if you add the 3 months between my ASIC application and when I actually received the card.
Did I get a 6 (or 9) out of 24 month proportionate rebate. ?
of course not.
Renewing a card requires requires exactly the same amount of crap and effort as for a fresh application.
A pox on the *%&#(* politicians and the bureaucrats who couldn't/wouldn't make the @*#(* politicians see that the whole ASIC for GA exercise is expensive and ineffectual from a security point of view.
I'll see your 3 months and raise you 6 (or 9) months.
6 months, because I applied for an ASIC 6 months after I had an AVID check, and 9 months if you add the 3 months between my ASIC application and when I actually received the card.
Did I get a 6 (or 9) out of 24 month proportionate rebate. ?
of course not.
Renewing a card requires requires exactly the same amount of crap and effort as for a fresh application.
A pox on the *%&#(* politicians and the bureaucrats who couldn't/wouldn't make the @*#(* politicians see that the whole ASIC for GA exercise is expensive and ineffectual from a security point of view.
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For those who have bitten the bullet and decided to apply or renew, who are you going through? There are a number of options for issuing ASICs and it would be interesting to see where the majority are going.
Walrus
Walrus
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Renewing asic
Walrus, who and where are the options, and any idea's in the cost differences, rather than going through the 'dept.' and perhapps loosing both time on the card and also a fair amount of money.