Blueskyrich

Hello all,

A while back, I posted a question about hour building in the US, which got some really useful responses (thanks for that! ).

The one issue that has arisen from that is the one of being issued a temporary FAA licence so that I can fly as unrestricted PIC.

Now, I've tried to contact the FAA with no luck yet as to the exact process, timescales and costs. Do any of you either have any experience of this or can point me to a link which can explain the process as simply as possible? I've looked at the FAA site, but can only find some forms that relate to the process, not the actual details.

Regards,
Blueskyrich

gcolyer

I have the details somewhere. I will dig them at and PM you.

EvilKitty

http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certific..._verification/ appears a good place to start. Says you shuld send in the forms for verifying your licence at least 90 days before you intend to visit the FSDO. No idea on the costs at the US end.

At the UK end you need to ask the CAA to verify the licence. This involves sending them £38 and two forms SRG1160 (the verification authorisation) and SRG1187 (the payment details). Full details can be found at (details at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fc...n_process.pdf).

At least thats the theory... let us know how you get on.

DaveW

Evilkitty's info is correct, and there's a step by step guide here, with links to the forms etc - scroll down a screen to get it.

There's no cost at the US end.

Incidentally, the FAA license you end up with isn't temporary - it lasts as long as your JAA licence remains valid - all you have to do extra is undertake the Biennial Flight Review that all FAA PPLs must do every two years anyway.

The 'temporary' confusion perhaps comes from the fact that the FSDO that you present your details at issues you there and then with a 'Temporary Airman's Certificate' (Lasts 90 days IIRC) that allows you to fly immediately i.e. before you get your credit card sized FAA license sent to your home address.

Blueskyrich

Ah, that's great - you're all wonderful people!

Just a little worried as even though I've got a few months to sort it all out, I'm a little nervous about going out there to fly, visit the FSDO, only for them to say 'no licence, on yer bike'! If that happened, I'd be in a little bit of a pickle - so much so, I'm contemplating a little trip out before if needed so I know that I'll be good to go when I'm out there.

This flying lark isn't easy eh??

I promise to update this thread accordingly with updates and experience.

Many thanks,

Blueskyrich

DaveW

Don't worry - you get a letter from the FAA at your home address confirming that they've received your details from the CAA, and also confirming that they'll send the relevant internal FAA paperwork to your nominated FSDO (FAA local office) so that they are ready for you.

If there were any problems they should let you know then - the only thing that you need to do is ensure that you have JAA licence, medical certificate and logbook all correct and current when you travel out. If you are really worried, contact the FSDO once you get the letter from the FAA and confirm they have no issues - phone and (I think) email details for the FSDOs are in obtainable via the step by step guide I gave you earlier.

By the way, you will find it helpful to prepare for the Biennial Flight Review (which you'll need to do once you get your FAA license) whilst you are in the UK, to which end I suggest you get hold of a US chart (US "Sectional" = UK "Half Million" is what you want, although US "Terminal Chart" = UK "Quarter Mill" is also handy) before you go. You can then familiarise yourself with chart legends etc.

Even more improtant is to bone up on the regs, for which I'd recommend Jackie Spanitz "Guide to the Biennial Flight Review", which is less than a tenner and available from any random online bookseller named after a large river you might care to mention

Blueskyrich

Cool, that sounds like a good way forward. I didn't think it was a simple case of pitching up at the flight school with bag in hand and charts marked up!

In fact, it's a little re-assuring that there are processes to follow i.e. you aren't just let loose in the great outdoors! I'll be staying/flying in the NJ area near to Phily, so I guess the Tetboro office will be my best bet.

Thanks for the info on the books - I'll get on it.

cs03dmj

...so is there anyway to convert a JAA-PPL(A) to, and obtain a full FAA licence without stepping foot in America? Apologies if that's a particularly silly question, but I have my reasons!

Keygrip

The TAC, as mentioned in message #4, is valid 120 days.

EvilKitty

I've been wondering the same thing (currently trying to decide whether to finish my PPL in the US and pick up both JAA and FAA tickets at the same time, or finish JAA here and convert to standalone FAA - the simple reason being that long term I'll be in the US and will let my JAA ticket lapse).

Anywho... from what I've gathered, what you need to do is

1. work out what flight training you need to satisfy the FAA training requirements with a suitable FAA instructor and undertake that training
2. pass the ground exams
3. do the flight review and oral exam

The ground exams I believe can be sat at Flight Safety International in Farnborough. For the flight training you will need an FAA instructor. If I've understood the requirements correctly, as you already have a JAA-PPL, they do not need to be a JAA-FI (as they are not teaching a JAA rating and you already have the JAA-PPL), but in order to get paid they will need to be a JAA-CPL. I don't think there is a requirement for the aircraft to be N reg. Sean at Eagle Flight in Luton maybe able to help with further info, as I recall he has both JAA and FAA FI, and I'm sure there are others around too (WillowAir comes to mind as one). Searches on your favourite search engine may bring up others. The final part is the flight review and oral exam which needs to be carried out by a FAA pilot examiner. To do this in the UK they will need to be JAA-CPL in order to get paid. Not sure if there are any here or not. Probably the best thing to do on this is to contact the New York FSDO (International Field Office) and they will be able to advise you on whether there is a suitable examiner available or due to visit. I suspect though that a trip to the US will be needed. I'm not sure what the visa requirements are for this as strictly you will not be undertaking training - just a flight review. Probably best to check with the embassy, USCIS and TSA just to make sure. Again the NY FSDO may be able to advise.

The only other thing is that no matter where you undertake training (whether or not the training is undertaken in the USA) for a FAA certificate, you must register with the TSA if you are not a US citizen. This will almost certainly involve a trip to Flight Safety International as they are authorised to carry out the necessary fingerprinting in the UK.

Errors and Omissions exempt. Let me know if I've got anything wrong

Arrowflyer

Actually, that's a common mistake in understanding. There is no need to do the Biennial. The FAA license based on a foreign licenses only requires that the foreign license is valid and you have a current medical. As long as your UK license and medical are valid, that's good enough. Check out the FAR 61.75.

Logically, you can't do a Biennial as you would have to perform flight manouvers (and night flight) that you have not been taught in the UK.

DaveW

That's not so, Arrowflyer. Indeed, I've been shown the relevant section of the FARs by a CFI in the US. I accept that my authority is somewhat diminished I have to admit, by my not having the FAR para reference to hand, but I assure you it's true! FARs are searchable online, of course.

Any PPL can of course do a Biennial because the format of a Biennial is not laid down anywhere. Your FAA PPL will be marked as "Restricted Use" if your JAA/CAA priviliges don't allow you to do everything a vanilla FAA PPL holder can do - e.g. night, so you simply tell the Instructor "unable". As for un-taught flight manoeuvres, what do you mean?

<Later> I've found the relevant FARs, which are Sec 61.75 and Sec 61.56. I'll quote chapter and verse in a bit when I'm at a machine outside a firewall which restricts post sizes.

Arrowflyer

I have been told that as long as the UK license is current, the FAA one is also. Therefore as long as you do your SEP renewal every 2 years for your UK license, you are good to go. I have flown in the States (well California at least) and never been asked for a BFR.

I fly an N-reg and thus was concerned that, at SEP renewal time, I had to 2. One for the UK and 1 for the FAA. I know a lot of N-reg flyers working on this principle with FAA foreign license.

I hope I'm not wrong
I think it's one of those things that you get a different answer depending on who you ask.

DaveW

Best to think of it the other way around. If the non-US licence is current, then the foundation for the FAA certificate is firm.
Unfortunately that's not correct - what you are doing here is maintaining that foundation, on top of which needs to be built the FAA's own requirements.

The important thing is that you are flying on your FAA PPL when flying in the US / in an N reg aircraft.

The UK PPL validates it, but the FAA certificate is what makes you legal.

Therefore it is necessary to ensure that all the things required to make the FAA PPL current are also in place. Just because you haven't been asked for your BFR doesn't mean you shouldn't have had it!

This is where the FARs come in.
FAR 61.75 is concerned with foreign pilot authorizations:
(An aside: The bit in bold above is, I understand, a fairly common source of misunderstanding at US rental organizations, who are confused if an FAA medical cannot be produced, although fortunately I've never fallen foul of it.)

The point here is that you "may be issued with" the FAA certificate - that doesn't mean it is the end of the story.

FAR 61.56 deals with the Flight Review:
Given the provenance of the quote (i.e. the FARs) "Authorized" obviously means "authorised by the FAA", which your UK instructor who flew with you for your JAA "biennial" won't be in 99.9% of cases. In the final 0.1%, he/she needs to sign your logbook with the relevant FAA wording and CFI number.

(Paras (d), (e) and (g) are not relevant to this discussion.)

Sorry...

It would certainly help if the FAA clearly stated "Foreign pilot? You need to do an FAA Flight Review every 24 months". But they don't, hence the confusion. The definitive answer comes from the FARs, as above

Speedbird48

OK Guys,

Before this gets any worse would you like it from the dark side??

YES, you need a Biennial Flight Review. Non of your UK stuff counts.

The US operators insurance will require a valid Biennial. Your checkout will count as a Biennial.

Yes, you need a medical. Your UK license is not valid without the medical and without a valid UK license your FAA vaidation is not valid.

However should your UK medical run out while you are here it has been known and accepted that you get a US medical. Lets start more argument on that one??

Please study for the Biennial as it is about US regulations and airspace not where you come from.

The rubbish about having to fly at night for a Biennial is all BS. In fact your validation "should" have a limitation placed on it to say that night flying is prohibited but few FAA inspectors know that the UK doesn't require night flying for a Private license.

This issue has been hashed so many times that you UK guys should all have it hanging on every hangar wall by now.

Any questions??

Speedbird48

Hi Paris Dakar,

I would ask if you were familiar with the FAR's, or even had a copy, to show the people at Bermuda Dunes that you were indeed current and legal?

You made the point that they didn't know what they were talking about, but did you help yourself?? When I appear at Redhill or Popham do they know what my US certificates relate to under UK law? I take a copy of the regulation with me.

There are times when you have to help yourself a little and attitude is everything.

A call to the local FSDO would have cleared it up "IF" they wanted to rent to you. Please remember it is not a right and they don't have to let you have their airplane. Not good business but true never the less.

You are also quite right that being a backwater may have been the problem. whereas one of the larger fields near international airports have seen it and done it all before.

Please come and enjoy our very fortunate way of aviation. Some of us are here to help you??

If you guys need help I would be happy to give guidance but I think it should be via a PM.

Speedbird48

Hi Paris Dakar,

Like to try again. I have no PM's at all.

Regards.

gcolyer

I have had exactly the same (different organisation though). Also when I went to the FSDO I had to have an FAA med or they would not issue the TAC.

DaveW

FAR 61.75 is explicit on the medical issue as I pointed out at post 15; whilst it may be no surprise that every FBO doesn't know the details of what (to them) may be an obscure FAR, it's infuriating when an organisations reps don't know - or don't check - their own rules, isn't it?

Shades of the Special Branch thread elsewhere in this forum!

dont overfill

Go along the road to The Flight School at PSP. Andy Dutzi knows the score and hires new aircraft
d.o.