Concorde (Merged)
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Concorde (Merged)
The Times October 19, 2006 - Who's keeping Britain's favourite aircraft ticking over? The French.
By Ben Webster
BA’s treatment of the aircraft is an act of vandalism, says its former chief pilot
THE dream of returning Concorde to the skies is being kept alive by a dedicated band of French aviation engineers who are quietly keeping one of the supersonic aircraft in a near-airworthy condition. However, British enthusiasts may have to swallow their pride because the aircraft in question carries Air France livery and would take off from an airport in Paris.
British Airways has refused to co-operate with Concorde fans who want to bring an aircraft out of retirement for fly-pasts on special occasions, such as the opening of the 2012 Olympics. BA ordered all the hydraulic pipes to be drained and electrical systems disabled on its seven Concordes, a decision that Jock Lowe, the airline’s former chief Concorde pilot and fleet manager, described as an act of vandalism. The systems have not been switched on for almost three years, making any attempt to get a BA Concorde airborne again very difficult and extremely expensive.
But a group of Air France Concorde engineers is being allowed daily access to Sierra Delta, one the youngest of the 19 surviving aircraft. It is on display at the Air and Space Museum at Le Bourget airport in Paris. The engineers carry out basic checks and run the systems, including the hydraulics and electrics, at least three times a week. They also lower and raise the famous pointed nose. Gérard Feldzer, the museum director, said that he supported the group’s plan to restart Sierra Delta’s engines and taxi it around the airport. Ultimately, the group is determined to see it take to the skies once again.
Pascal Touzeau, the president of the Maintenance Concorde association, who spent 13 years as a ground engineer working on Air France Concordes, said: “We are keeping Concorde alive and ready for the time when funding is found to let it fly again. We have no problem finding volunteers with the necessary expertise because they all love this plane. People don’t feel the same passion about modern aircraft.” Mr Touzeau, who watched the Concorde crash in Paris in 2000 only minutes after he had waved the pilots off, said that he was surprised by BA’s attitude. “We always felt the British loved Concorde more than the French so we cannot understand why nothing is being done with the BA Concordes.” Members of the group will travel to the Toulouse headquarters of Airbus next week to discuss gaining access to spare parts.
The association estimates that it would cost £3 million to prepare the aircraft for flight. This compares with the £15 million that Mr Lowe calculates would be needed to get a BA Concorde off the ground. Mr Lowe said: “It was an act of vandalism by BA to drain off all the fluids. It will be embarrassing for Britain if only a French Concorde flies again because it was always a joint project between the two countries.” Mr Lowe dismissed BA’s claim that it would be impossible to get a manufacturer’s safety certificate, which would be required by the Civil Aviation Authority. “That’s nonsense. If Airbus wasn’t willing to take it on, a special company could be formed to hold the certificate. They just need access to the manufacturer’s designs.”
A BA spokeswoman said that the systems had been decommissioned for safety reasons. Asked whether another organisation could seek approval to fly a BA Concorde, she said: “It’s not debatable because we own them.”
Steve Falder, spokesman for the Save Concorde Group, which is campaigning to return a BA Concorde to flight, said: “We would also have plenty of well-qualified volunteers if only BA would give them the chance. It is disgraceful that these aircraft, an important part of Britain’s industrial heritage, are being allowed slowly to deteriorate.”
It's Captain Webster on a tour of the Sierra Delta
A GROUP of French schoolchildren looked on enviously as I was ushered through the glass door that separates the cockpit from the public area on board Sierra Delta.
Alexandra Jolivet, Air France’s only female Concorde engineer, flicked a switch and the museum piece sprang to life. Needles swayed on numerous dials, air conditioning roared and the gloomy interior was suddenly illuminated by hundreds of miniature green, orange and red lights. Alexandra guided my hand to the lever that controls the nose. Two notches down tilted it to the landing position, which would allow the pilot to see the runway. In my case, it revealed Japanese tourists taking photos.
Before leaving the cockpit, Captain Webster could not resist sliding back a side window marked “Do not open in flight” and waving to the visitors below. At the rear of the cockpit, I came across a panel covered in graffiti written by crew on some of the last flights in 2003. A pilot had written: “Concorde est toujours vivant, il n’est qu’en sommeil.” (Concorde lives on, it is only sleeping).......
By Ben Webster
BA’s treatment of the aircraft is an act of vandalism, says its former chief pilot
THE dream of returning Concorde to the skies is being kept alive by a dedicated band of French aviation engineers who are quietly keeping one of the supersonic aircraft in a near-airworthy condition. However, British enthusiasts may have to swallow their pride because the aircraft in question carries Air France livery and would take off from an airport in Paris.
British Airways has refused to co-operate with Concorde fans who want to bring an aircraft out of retirement for fly-pasts on special occasions, such as the opening of the 2012 Olympics. BA ordered all the hydraulic pipes to be drained and electrical systems disabled on its seven Concordes, a decision that Jock Lowe, the airline’s former chief Concorde pilot and fleet manager, described as an act of vandalism. The systems have not been switched on for almost three years, making any attempt to get a BA Concorde airborne again very difficult and extremely expensive.
But a group of Air France Concorde engineers is being allowed daily access to Sierra Delta, one the youngest of the 19 surviving aircraft. It is on display at the Air and Space Museum at Le Bourget airport in Paris. The engineers carry out basic checks and run the systems, including the hydraulics and electrics, at least three times a week. They also lower and raise the famous pointed nose. Gérard Feldzer, the museum director, said that he supported the group’s plan to restart Sierra Delta’s engines and taxi it around the airport. Ultimately, the group is determined to see it take to the skies once again.
Pascal Touzeau, the president of the Maintenance Concorde association, who spent 13 years as a ground engineer working on Air France Concordes, said: “We are keeping Concorde alive and ready for the time when funding is found to let it fly again. We have no problem finding volunteers with the necessary expertise because they all love this plane. People don’t feel the same passion about modern aircraft.” Mr Touzeau, who watched the Concorde crash in Paris in 2000 only minutes after he had waved the pilots off, said that he was surprised by BA’s attitude. “We always felt the British loved Concorde more than the French so we cannot understand why nothing is being done with the BA Concordes.” Members of the group will travel to the Toulouse headquarters of Airbus next week to discuss gaining access to spare parts.
The association estimates that it would cost £3 million to prepare the aircraft for flight. This compares with the £15 million that Mr Lowe calculates would be needed to get a BA Concorde off the ground. Mr Lowe said: “It was an act of vandalism by BA to drain off all the fluids. It will be embarrassing for Britain if only a French Concorde flies again because it was always a joint project between the two countries.” Mr Lowe dismissed BA’s claim that it would be impossible to get a manufacturer’s safety certificate, which would be required by the Civil Aviation Authority. “That’s nonsense. If Airbus wasn’t willing to take it on, a special company could be formed to hold the certificate. They just need access to the manufacturer’s designs.”
A BA spokeswoman said that the systems had been decommissioned for safety reasons. Asked whether another organisation could seek approval to fly a BA Concorde, she said: “It’s not debatable because we own them.”
Steve Falder, spokesman for the Save Concorde Group, which is campaigning to return a BA Concorde to flight, said: “We would also have plenty of well-qualified volunteers if only BA would give them the chance. It is disgraceful that these aircraft, an important part of Britain’s industrial heritage, are being allowed slowly to deteriorate.”
It's Captain Webster on a tour of the Sierra Delta
A GROUP of French schoolchildren looked on enviously as I was ushered through the glass door that separates the cockpit from the public area on board Sierra Delta.
Alexandra Jolivet, Air France’s only female Concorde engineer, flicked a switch and the museum piece sprang to life. Needles swayed on numerous dials, air conditioning roared and the gloomy interior was suddenly illuminated by hundreds of miniature green, orange and red lights. Alexandra guided my hand to the lever that controls the nose. Two notches down tilted it to the landing position, which would allow the pilot to see the runway. In my case, it revealed Japanese tourists taking photos.
Before leaving the cockpit, Captain Webster could not resist sliding back a side window marked “Do not open in flight” and waving to the visitors below. At the rear of the cockpit, I came across a panel covered in graffiti written by crew on some of the last flights in 2003. A pilot had written: “Concorde est toujours vivant, il n’est qu’en sommeil.” (Concorde lives on, it is only sleeping).......
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Concorde
Article in the "Times" today suggests that the French are maintaining a Concorde( Sierra Delta) with a desire to get it back to the sky---- Engine Runs, systems check et cetera
BA Hang your head in shame
BA Hang your head in shame
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Concorde RIP
Dont know how true it is but I've read that NASA engineers said that getting a man to the moon was much easier that designing an aircraft capable of mach 2+ over thousands of miles. BA dumped it when it became unprofitable (In the short term) even though they had been given them for free !!!
Disgracefull
and the french are going to rub our faces in it !!!!!! wont be long before we see an Air France Concorde over our sky
Disgracefull
and the french are going to rub our faces in it !!!!!! wont be long before we see an Air France Concorde over our sky
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Bernoulli
Is Alpha Charlie getting in a state? Last time I popped up to the viewing park to catch up with a mate, he told me it was being well maintained (with a view to being flown again one day) and it looked clean and well groomed to me (it was quite a while ago though). How sad.
I'm surprised Air France are planning on flying one again...seeing as it was them who basically caused its demise.
Is Alpha Charlie getting in a state? Last time I popped up to the viewing park to catch up with a mate, he told me it was being well maintained (with a view to being flown again one day) and it looked clean and well groomed to me (it was quite a while ago though). How sad.
I'm surprised Air France are planning on flying one again...seeing as it was them who basically caused its demise.
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I posted last year in respect of the French Olympic bid that had they won, one of the Concordes would have been kept airworthy for use at the ceremonies. At that time it was alleged that they could get it back in the air within 7 days.
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Concorde
Well done to the French---- Completely stuffed us on this one--------- and as for BA-------disgrace----- World's Favourite Airline ---- NOT
Last edited by dope05; 19th Oct 2006 at 18:22.
I thought the agreement was that the airworthyness certificate was withdrawn by both sides so that Concorde couldn't be flown again . France perfide ..... Is it true that BA have made the a/c unflyable by cutting through the spars ? Bloody froggies . So much for European union !
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As I work for company which is part French I have found that they usually have their own way of doing things and getting round regularities. Frustrating at times, but to be honest, if it gets Concorde back in the air - FANTASTIC!
I have never really understood why it was dropped like a hot potato and why BA treat their Concorde's in such a disgraceful manner.
C23
I have never really understood why it was dropped like a hot potato and why BA treat their Concorde's in such a disgraceful manner.
C23
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Meanwhile... Manchester Airport continues to let it's Concorde rot. The very least they must do there is to build a hangar around it. The present situation is a disgrace
Alpha fox ....... doing touch and go's ..... everyone turned out to watch ....
Paxing All Over The World
When the French pulled the plug on the aircraft and BA did their darndest to keep them flying - everyone in PPRuNe castigated the French. Now you are praising them? Huh? 
I visited G-BOAC on 23rd September for a technical tour. It was a very fine day and we spent a great deal of time under and around her, I could see no weather damage. Not an expert but nothing obvious. Of course it woul dbe best for her to be under cover but I thought they were doing all that they could.
I visited G-BOAC on 23rd September for a technical tour. It was a very fine day and we spent a great deal of time under and around her, I could see no weather damage. Not an expert but nothing obvious. Of course it woul dbe best for her to be under cover but I thought they were doing all that they could.
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Why let the facts get in the way of a good rant?
Airbus stated they will not support Concorde, they also would not release the tools and moulds required to allow someone else to support it.
There was b%gger all BA could do about it.
If Airbus decide to keep one going that's their call, they're the only people with spare parts or the capability to produce spare parts.
Airbus stated they will not support Concorde, they also would not release the tools and moulds required to allow someone else to support it.
There was b%gger all BA could do about it.
If Airbus decide to keep one going that's their call, they're the only people with spare parts or the capability to produce spare parts.
ba's appalling vandalism and dog-in-the-manger attitude is one reason why I will never, ever fly with them.
The other being the 'Dirty Tricks' era - which is clearly not dead as the recent price-fixing scandal revealed.
I have known for some time that the Le Bourget aircraft is being maintained in as near to airworthy condition as can be achieved. I was told that the President had decreed that it would be so.
For all her numerous faults, I'm convinced that Mad old Maggie wouldn't have allowed Skippy to destroy the only decent thing about ba. It would have been a no-tea handbagging interview, at the very least. Whereas that gurning idiot coudn't give a damn.
The other being the 'Dirty Tricks' era - which is clearly not dead as the recent price-fixing scandal revealed.
I have known for some time that the Le Bourget aircraft is being maintained in as near to airworthy condition as can be achieved. I was told that the President had decreed that it would be so.
For all her numerous faults, I'm convinced that Mad old Maggie wouldn't have allowed Skippy to destroy the only decent thing about ba. It would have been a no-tea handbagging interview, at the very least. Whereas that gurning idiot coudn't give a damn.
<<ba's appalling vandalism and dog-in-the-manger attitude is one reason why I will never, ever fly with them>>
Now look here beagle, old boy; you do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about BA. Every time I see one of your contributions it seems to have a 'I will never, ever fly with them' paragraph - bit like JW411
I gather that your experience is mostly RAF whereas mine is a bit more catholic, the RAF having formed merely part of my rather wider experience of employment.
I can safely say that BA together with IBM were my two best employers.
I'm sure that you are a jolly good pilot and officer and all that stuff but cannot help feeling that there is something missing with a chap who has to carry on a, if you will excuse me saying so, fairly innefectual vendetta against an airline who's CE probably hasn't even read one of your postings.
Has the BA board destroyed something dear to you? If so I would counsel against taking them on legally - they are sh1ts when you try that but, hey!, nobody's perfect!
What is it these smart young people say? "Let it go."
Now look here beagle, old boy; you do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about BA. Every time I see one of your contributions it seems to have a 'I will never, ever fly with them' paragraph - bit like JW411
I gather that your experience is mostly RAF whereas mine is a bit more catholic, the RAF having formed merely part of my rather wider experience of employment.
I can safely say that BA together with IBM were my two best employers.
I'm sure that you are a jolly good pilot and officer and all that stuff but cannot help feeling that there is something missing with a chap who has to carry on a, if you will excuse me saying so, fairly innefectual vendetta against an airline who's CE probably hasn't even read one of your postings.
Has the BA board destroyed something dear to you? If so I would counsel against taking them on legally - they are sh1ts when you try that but, hey!, nobody's perfect!
What is it these smart young people say? "Let it go."
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I too am disgusted with Manchester Airport. When it was 'donated' the airport promised a hangar for its collection 'within a year'
Don't know state of Mcr Concorde, not prepared to pay £10 to find out; but its no Nevada desert up here!
Don't know state of Mcr Concorde, not prepared to pay £10 to find out; but its no Nevada desert up here!