Concorde (Merged)
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Compare & discuss
UK cancels Blue Steel rocket, France develops Ariane5
UK cancels TSR2, France builds the Mirage fighter
UK has no aviation design & manufacturing industry France has Airbus
To keep expense to a min, UK collaborates and we know what the French thought of collaborators.
The UK wants short term profit without risk - no vision left after the Harrier!
UK cancels Blue Steel rocket, France develops Ariane5
UK cancels TSR2, France builds the Mirage fighter
UK has no aviation design & manufacturing industry France has Airbus
To keep expense to a min, UK collaborates and we know what the French thought of collaborators.
The UK wants short term profit without risk - no vision left after the Harrier!
UK cancels Blue Steel rocket, France develops Ariane5
No, it was Blue Streak. This went on to become part of ELDO, but the UK pulled out. Own goal 1
UK cancels TSR2, France builds the Mirage fighter
Nothing to do with TSR2. The UK gave Dassault a lot of Fairey Delta 2 information; the Mirage 3 was the result. Own goal 2
UK has no aviation design & manufacturing industry France has Airbus.
UK decided not to join Airbus as a full member when the offer was there. However, wing design has always been primarily British. Own goal 3
Don't blame the French, blame the succession of useless idiots who have been in the UK parliament since the second Wold War ended!
No, it was Blue Streak. This went on to become part of ELDO, but the UK pulled out. Own goal 1
UK cancels TSR2, France builds the Mirage fighter
Nothing to do with TSR2. The UK gave Dassault a lot of Fairey Delta 2 information; the Mirage 3 was the result. Own goal 2
UK has no aviation design & manufacturing industry France has Airbus.
UK decided not to join Airbus as a full member when the offer was there. However, wing design has always been primarily British. Own goal 3
Don't blame the French, blame the succession of useless idiots who have been in the UK parliament since the second Wold War ended!
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Let us not forget that in addition to very sucessful aviation industry they all so have have a thriving motor vehicle industry. Unlike us that seem to have very little in engineering.
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Don't blame the French, blame the succession of useless idiots who have been in the UK parliament since the second Wold War ended!
Much as I’d love to see the prettiest aircraft known to mankind back in the air, and much as I’m not really bothered whose livery adorns it (whatever way you look at it, Concorde represents a wealth of British engineering innovation and Brits should be proud - regardless of paintjob), I can’t help but suspect the efforts of these well-meaning French engineers will come to little more than the efforts of the Scotland Yard detectives keeping the Lucan file open.
I’d love to be proved wrong, but why risk it?
All the best to them – Vive Le France!
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The logic (or otherwise) used to decide the final resting places of the BA Concorde fleet has continued to puzzle me. These aircraft were/are a national treasure and should have been treated as such. The New York airframe is deteriorating quickly and just how many people visit the airframe in the Caribbean.
I have taken my kids to see the East Fortune Concorde on a couple of occasions. The second time was because my kids were nagging me to go and see her again. Well who am I to refuse! That airframe (despite having her wings welded back on) is under cover in a hangar dedicated entirely to her and appears to be well looked after. The visitor numbers appear to be pretty healthy, but the rest of the museum needs to be brought up to scratch to match the star exhibit. Just how long the welding holds out is a matter of some debate. I understand that the company that joined her back together were not entirely confident how long the welds would last.
To keep one in ground-running condition could have been achieved. If the money can be found to get the Bruntingthorpe Vulcan up into the sky, then surely the money would have been found to keep a Concorde ticking over. As much as I like the Vulcan, the support that a Concorde project could have recieved would have been far greater. Additionally, volunteers to look after her would not have been difficult to come by. The team of volunteers at Bruntingthorpe have, to their eternal credit, more than proved that.
That is why many feel so strongly about the way BA went about things. Just a little bit of effort and a lot less spite could have seen a totally different outcome. All this could have been done without any money from BA. Goodwill and co-operation would have been all that was required from them. I'm not in to cross-channel p.......g contests, but the French have shown the way and I for one applaud them. Pity some of the big wigs in the UK did not posses similar foresight.
WJMcP
I have taken my kids to see the East Fortune Concorde on a couple of occasions. The second time was because my kids were nagging me to go and see her again. Well who am I to refuse! That airframe (despite having her wings welded back on) is under cover in a hangar dedicated entirely to her and appears to be well looked after. The visitor numbers appear to be pretty healthy, but the rest of the museum needs to be brought up to scratch to match the star exhibit. Just how long the welding holds out is a matter of some debate. I understand that the company that joined her back together were not entirely confident how long the welds would last.
To keep one in ground-running condition could have been achieved. If the money can be found to get the Bruntingthorpe Vulcan up into the sky, then surely the money would have been found to keep a Concorde ticking over. As much as I like the Vulcan, the support that a Concorde project could have recieved would have been far greater. Additionally, volunteers to look after her would not have been difficult to come by. The team of volunteers at Bruntingthorpe have, to their eternal credit, more than proved that.
That is why many feel so strongly about the way BA went about things. Just a little bit of effort and a lot less spite could have seen a totally different outcome. All this could have been done without any money from BA. Goodwill and co-operation would have been all that was required from them. I'm not in to cross-channel p.......g contests, but the French have shown the way and I for one applaud them. Pity some of the big wigs in the UK did not posses similar foresight.
WJMcP
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If BA does not want any further involvement with Concorde then they should offer them for sale at a reasonable price, after all they were paid for by the tax-payer
Airbus will not support the aircraft, end of story. If they choose to activate one that's entirely their choice, but they will not commercially support the aircraft.
As for BA (and AF for that matter) not trying very hard to keep them going, just remind us all how much they spent on upgrading the fleet only to get one years flying out of them?
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Looking Forward
Beagle and Nov71,
I entirely agree with your comparisons of "industrial attitude" between the UK and France, especially on aerospace but to that we could add trains, tunnels, viaducts etc! Where I would like to see the publicity and waves of support build up though is for FUTURE projects, not trying to resurrect past ones. It is unlikely to happen but how good would it be for the UK to launch a programme for a future SST for example instead of closing down UK civil aircraft manufacture then selling its remaining stake in Airbus etc.
I spend plenty of time in France and it is clear that once they decide to build a new runway or new TGV line or new motorway or whatever - it just gets built rather than endlessly debated, watered down, moved etc etc.
I entirely agree with your comparisons of "industrial attitude" between the UK and France, especially on aerospace but to that we could add trains, tunnels, viaducts etc! Where I would like to see the publicity and waves of support build up though is for FUTURE projects, not trying to resurrect past ones. It is unlikely to happen but how good would it be for the UK to launch a programme for a future SST for example instead of closing down UK civil aircraft manufacture then selling its remaining stake in Airbus etc.
I spend plenty of time in France and it is clear that once they decide to build a new runway or new TGV line or new motorway or whatever - it just gets built rather than endlessly debated, watered down, moved etc etc.
Just what I was thinking, Porks, when I saw that episode of Top Gear which showed the stunning Millau Bridge in France!
Designed by a British architect, Norman Foster, but built in France!
A German Airbus TP once told me the difference between British, French and German attitudes to aerospace. When given the Aircraft Operating Manual,
The German looks for the rule which tells him how to do something.
The Brit looks for the rule which stops him from doing something.
The Frenchman says "Rules? What are rules?"
I hasten to add that the French flight test engineer (ex-Concorde) laughed as well!
Designed by a British architect, Norman Foster, but built in France!
A German Airbus TP once told me the difference between British, French and German attitudes to aerospace. When given the Aircraft Operating Manual,
The German looks for the rule which tells him how to do something.
The Brit looks for the rule which stops him from doing something.
The Frenchman says "Rules? What are rules?"
I hasten to add that the French flight test engineer (ex-Concorde) laughed as well!
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I've recently chatted to my colleagues in France and they tell me they "dream" of one day doing and engine run on the aircraft at Le Bourget , but realistically have no serious plans.....they donlt even have the fund at the Air and Space museum to take down the hall's wall to allow the aircraft to be moved outside.
They are happy to power up the aircraft and pressurise a small sections of it hydraulics to power the nose and visor.
In the UK (+US) BA still own the a/c, so certain systems were decommissioned so that no accidents would happen with untrained volunteers tinkering. In France AF did not care.
Better to be safe than sorry I guess.
They are happy to power up the aircraft and pressurise a small sections of it hydraulics to power the nose and visor.
In the UK (+US) BA still own the a/c, so certain systems were decommissioned so that no accidents would happen with untrained volunteers tinkering. In France AF did not care.
Better to be safe than sorry I guess.
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To who and for what?
Airbus will not support the aircraft, end of story. If they choose to activate one that's entirely their choice, but they will not commercially support the aircraft
(* Added for the pessimists
)
Gnome de PPRuNe
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I thought the one down at Filton was being kept "warmish" so to speak and would be the most likely BA example to fly again if ever one did... I sit to be corrected of course!
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I thought the one down at Filton was being kept "warmish" so to speak and would be the most likely BA example to fly again if ever one did... I sit to be corrected of course!
When I did some approaches at filton, i was told that the Concorde there had been damaged by the strong winds that we had some time last year...Not sure if it was true, I hoped not.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Good news for G-BOAF at Filton
From the great website:-
'Foxie' takes a big step towards coming in from the cold - 27/10/06
The door has been opened for a permanent home to be built for G-BOAF at Cribbs Causeway next door to Filton airfield, with the bequest of a key area of land onto which a new visitors centre to house the aircraft can be constructed.
The offer of a free plot of land in the prestigious Cribbs Causeway development has come from JT Baylis & Co, the land owners who built the large shopping mall on the site.
Managing director Edward Whelan said: "(the late) Jack will always be remembered as the man who brought The Mall to Cribbs Causeway. It was his vision, drive and business skill that led to it being built.
"His other great wish was to see Concorde return to its home in Filton. We are, therefore, very proud to support this initiative to build a permanent home for this iconic masterpiece of British engineering, alongside its birthplace and the attractions at Cribbs Causeway."
(continues, plus pictures)
The door has been opened for a permanent home to be built for G-BOAF at Cribbs Causeway next door to Filton airfield, with the bequest of a key area of land onto which a new visitors centre to house the aircraft can be constructed.
The offer of a free plot of land in the prestigious Cribbs Causeway development has come from JT Baylis & Co, the land owners who built the large shopping mall on the site.
Managing director Edward Whelan said: "(the late) Jack will always be remembered as the man who brought The Mall to Cribbs Causeway. It was his vision, drive and business skill that led to it being built.
"His other great wish was to see Concorde return to its home in Filton. We are, therefore, very proud to support this initiative to build a permanent home for this iconic masterpiece of British engineering, alongside its birthplace and the attractions at Cribbs Causeway."
(continues, plus pictures)
