NATS ATCO Pay Deal Accepted
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cars
Eyeing with greed, jealousy and parochial nosiness the trainee cars in the car park. What a lovely bunch of people
Wonder if those trainees bought those nice cars being successful beforehand in other professions.
Bringing those skills and worldliness to atc.
That won't be hapnin as much anymore so no more green eyes necessary in that direction.
Who's next. Now what are those ATSA's driving nowadays.
Wonder if those trainees bought those nice cars being successful beforehand in other professions.
Bringing those skills and worldliness to atc. That won't be hapnin as much anymore so no more green eyes necessary in that direction.
Who's next. Now what are those ATSA's driving nowadays.
Last edited by Bumpy; 14th Feb 2006 at 10:13.
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How pathetic;
Once again, when it comes to a discussion about terms and conditions/pay, the banding issue comes up. I work at a band 5 unit; I fully agree that some units work bloody hard and don't get the recognition - for example Farnborough to name but one. I also believe; somewhat controversially, that there are probably a few units who, when all is taken into consideration, work as hard as Heathrow tower controllers. I appreciate ground can be tricky; but air controller on a dual runway operation??
That aside; why do we always get these whinges about
when it comes to pay?? We all got the same deal this time; banding was never going to be discussed. You were not stitched up by us.
If you look at the voting figures; 1/3rd did not even vote..... are you trying to say that we can have a 65% vote in favour even if all the lower banded/airport units voted no, with a 70% turnout? The maths do not add up - there are people out there at airports who voted yes. Similarly there are people at Band 5 units who voted no.
The question we should be asking is why was there such an apathetic turn out? I have heard stories of people not getting voting papers, and of people not being briefed by the union. These are the issues we should be addressing first, instead of bitching at each other.
We are all supposed to be colleagues, regardless of banding. Until we start being united, the management are always going to walk over us.
That is a particularly worrying fact, considering how limp wristed and ineffective the management are.
Once again, when it comes to a discussion about terms and conditions/pay, the banding issue comes up. I work at a band 5 unit; I fully agree that some units work bloody hard and don't get the recognition - for example Farnborough to name but one. I also believe; somewhat controversially, that there are probably a few units who, when all is taken into consideration, work as hard as Heathrow tower controllers. I appreciate ground can be tricky; but air controller on a dual runway operation??
That aside; why do we always get these whinges about
'the big band 5 units stitching up the lower banded units'
If you look at the voting figures; 1/3rd did not even vote..... are you trying to say that we can have a 65% vote in favour even if all the lower banded/airport units voted no, with a 70% turnout? The maths do not add up - there are people out there at airports who voted yes. Similarly there are people at Band 5 units who voted no.
The question we should be asking is why was there such an apathetic turn out? I have heard stories of people not getting voting papers, and of people not being briefed by the union. These are the issues we should be addressing first, instead of bitching at each other.
We are all supposed to be colleagues, regardless of banding. Until we start being united, the management are always going to walk over us.
That is a particularly worrying fact, considering how limp wristed and ineffective the management are.
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"How pathetic;
Once again, when it comes to a discussion about terms and conditions/pay, the banding issue comes up. I work at a band 5 unit"
I work at a Band 2 unit and I voted yes! THIS time we all got the same percentage and associated benefits. However don't patronise the bands 1,2 and even 3 units with
"We are all supposed to be colleagues, regardless of banding. Until we start being united, the management are always going to walk over us"
Thats what happened 2 years ago idiot! Thats why we ARE split and being band 5, unless you were the moral minority, you probably voted the banding in!
Pay deals from now on are always going to be about banding as that is when the company was split, you cannot change this unless the whole banding system is readdressed.
Once again, when it comes to a discussion about terms and conditions/pay, the banding issue comes up. I work at a band 5 unit"
I work at a Band 2 unit and I voted yes! THIS time we all got the same percentage and associated benefits. However don't patronise the bands 1,2 and even 3 units with
"We are all supposed to be colleagues, regardless of banding. Until we start being united, the management are always going to walk over us"
Thats what happened 2 years ago idiot! Thats why we ARE split and being band 5, unless you were the moral minority, you probably voted the banding in!
Pay deals from now on are always going to be about banding as that is when the company was split, you cannot change this unless the whole banding system is readdressed.
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EXACTLY!!! A union is supposed to represent ALL its members, NOT just the most influential group at the expense of the rest. That's what being united means mate. It meant it 2 years ago over the banding isuue & it meant the same this year over the trainees pay. You can't expect the rest of the company to unite with you when at every opportunity you let management screw those lower down to line your own pockets.
It's hardly surprising that some people don't bother to vote, cos in reality it's not going to turn the vote against the way the big units vote is it? Management know this & that's why they always offer the carrots in your direction & beat the rest of us with the stick.
So don't talk to me about being united until you can convince me you know what it really means.
It's hardly surprising that some people don't bother to vote, cos in reality it's not going to turn the vote against the way the big units vote is it? Management know this & that's why they always offer the carrots in your direction & beat the rest of us with the stick.
So don't talk to me about being united until you can convince me you know what it really means.
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Originally Posted by ukatco_535
Heathrow tower controllers. I appreciate ground can be tricky; but air controller on a dual runway operation??
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Compared to working at a single runway airport or an airport with intersecting runways, with circuit traffic etc, yes; it is!! I will still grant you that ground would be interesting, in a not a very nice way!
Mad as a mad thing and hooting and a roaring.
The banding issue happened 2 years ago... it is not going to change in the forseeable future.
What other method do you suggest to pay the units that are more complex/busier??
I do not think that banding is perfect - far from it - but how else can people be 'rewarded' for complexity etc.
I do believe that the banding system should be re-assessed every pay deal instead of it being a done thing.
Sorry, but that is not a legitimate argument if people are then going to bitch about things.
So, now you get exactly the same pay deal as band 5 units, you vote yes?? Screw the new trainees tho eh 'cos this time you are all right - now thats showing the united front that you talk about.
Not
Tell you what; lets do the pay deals in future with a 'cost of living' factor thrown in as well... because the paltry inner/outer London weighting does not even begin to touch the difference in costs...
Mad as a mad thing and hooting and a roaring.
The banding issue happened 2 years ago... it is not going to change in the forseeable future.
What other method do you suggest to pay the units that are more complex/busier??
I do not think that banding is perfect - far from it - but how else can people be 'rewarded' for complexity etc.
I do believe that the banding system should be re-assessed every pay deal instead of it being a done thing.
It's hardly surprising that some people don't bother to vote, cos....
I work at a Band 2 unit and I voted yes! THIS time we all got the same percentage and associated benefits. However don't patronise the bands 1,2 and even 3 units with....
Not
Tell you what; lets do the pay deals in future with a 'cost of living' factor thrown in as well... because the paltry inner/outer London weighting does not even begin to touch the difference in costs...
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I think everyone is getting a bit hot under the collar.
I've just had my interview....literally yesterday. When I applied for this job, some time ago, it was on the £15k / year and £400 expenses as told by the ATCO at my assessment day in November 05.
Having found out very recently there'll only be half of this going into my bank account I can honestly say it hasn't made the slightest bit of difference. Yes it will mean extreme tightening of the purse strings but banks are more than happy to throw money at people knowing they'll get more back in return...believe me I know!!! There's people that live on this planet that don't even know what money is never mind a whole £10K/year, just to get all moralistic.
I want this job no matter what and if there's people out there who aren't willing to give up their luxuries for one, two tops years of their lives then they shouldn't even be contemplating applying. Are people really shallow enough to apply for a job just because of money??? I honestly can't stand that and would hate to think they pick some-one like that to train instead of me who has a real passion for it.
Sacrifices have to be made in every aspect of life, I was looking forward to passing my driving test, buying a car and driving to and from college in Bournemouth. Now I'll be bussing it...so what! At least I'll be there...hopefully!!!
Possibly I'm getting a bit hot under the collar myself now...oops!
Betty
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Bettyboop
Good luck with the interviews etc; I know that I for one, could not have afforded to give up my well paid (but terrible conditions) job to join NATS on todays wages.
You will find as you go through the training that ATCOS are a canny bunch - people that are in this only for the money tend to be found out. I still do not think that that is a good enough reason to pay peanuts.
Good luck with the interviews etc; I know that I for one, could not have afforded to give up my well paid (but terrible conditions) job to join NATS on todays wages.
You will find as you go through the training that ATCOS are a canny bunch - people that are in this only for the money tend to be found out. I still do not think that that is a good enough reason to pay peanuts.
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ATCO_535
"The banding issue happened 2 years ago... it is not going to change in the forseeable future.
What other method do you suggest to pay the units that are more complex/busier??"
The more complex units were getting better pay before the banding system!
"So, now you get exactly the same pay deal as band 5 units, you vote yes?? Screw the new trainees tho eh 'cos this time you are all right - now thats showing the united front that you talk about"
I'm not talking about a united front, we haven't got one. If you read my post that is the point I am making. You are bleating on about being united and sticking together, but seeing as you and your kind screwed your brothers lower down the scale when the banding vote came in, you must understand we feel you now have a real cheek telling us to stick together. You can't s**t on us and then expect us to smile back!!!
"The banding issue happened 2 years ago... it is not going to change in the forseeable future.
What other method do you suggest to pay the units that are more complex/busier??"
The more complex units were getting better pay before the banding system!
"So, now you get exactly the same pay deal as band 5 units, you vote yes?? Screw the new trainees tho eh 'cos this time you are all right - now thats showing the united front that you talk about"
I'm not talking about a united front, we haven't got one. If you read my post that is the point I am making. You are bleating on about being united and sticking together, but seeing as you and your kind screwed your brothers lower down the scale when the banding vote came in, you must understand we feel you now have a real cheek telling us to stick together. You can't s**t on us and then expect us to smile back!!!
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Thanks UKATCO 535, its much appreciated.
If I do get accepted I'm not about to turn down the opportunity of a lifetime simply because I can't afford it. I may regret saying that though in months to come but sure.
The Canny Bunch thing....I think I've found that out already, LOL
Betty
If I do get accepted I'm not about to turn down the opportunity of a lifetime simply because I can't afford it. I may regret saying that though in months to come but sure.
The Canny Bunch thing....I think I've found that out already, LOL
Betty
Originally Posted by ukatco_535
Bettyboop
Good luck with the interviews etc; I know that I for one, could not have afforded to give up my well paid (but terrible conditions) job to join NATS on todays wages.
You will find as you go through the training that ATCOS are a canny bunch - people that are in this only for the money tend to be found out. I still do not think that that is a good enough reason to pay peanuts.
Good luck with the interviews etc; I know that I for one, could not have afforded to give up my well paid (but terrible conditions) job to join NATS on todays wages.
You will find as you go through the training that ATCOS are a canny bunch - people that are in this only for the money tend to be found out. I still do not think that that is a good enough reason to pay peanuts.
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Complexity doesn't really seem to have been the issue when assessing banding, throughput of traffic however was. Some of the most complex units are on the lower bands.
As for stop wingeing and so something about it, well that is exactly what we did, we put a motion through conference which was passed unanimously regarding some units needing to be reassessed as their primary function was not the one upon which the banding was assessed.
It doesn't however matter if it is union policy if it isn't NATS policy.
As for stop wingeing and so something about it, well that is exactly what we did, we put a motion through conference which was passed unanimously regarding some units needing to be reassessed as their primary function was not the one upon which the banding was assessed.
It doesn't however matter if it is union policy if it isn't NATS policy.
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It never will be NATS policy.If anything they will want to screw the smaller units more.Thats why there is a Spine point 2-7,for ''New Business''.Yeah right Atco 4 I think.It happened before,it can happen again.
The review on Banding came from the Prospect Big Brass. 2 years ago when learning that NatsProspect had screwed us again,they said if the Banding is wrong it can be reviewed next time around.Yeah Right again .
The pay deal has a lot for ATCO 1's.How many are there at Band 1,2,3 units?
Ok there may be a few new posts formed,but this has little effect on the working ATCO.
Oil companies used to pay an Aberdeen allowance for the cost of living etc.Can't see the Band 4/5 boys wearing that one!
The review on Banding came from the Prospect Big Brass. 2 years ago when learning that NatsProspect had screwed us again,they said if the Banding is wrong it can be reviewed next time around.Yeah Right again .
The pay deal has a lot for ATCO 1's.How many are there at Band 1,2,3 units?
Ok there may be a few new posts formed,but this has little effect on the working ATCO.
Oil companies used to pay an Aberdeen allowance for the cost of living etc.Can't see the Band 4/5 boys wearing that one!
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So we're now differentiating between 'busy seats' and 'quiet seats' at the same unit on the same validation? Tell you what, maybe next time I do arrivals on 27L I should get paid more than last week when I did arrivals on 27R. Maybe next time Cardiff go into LVPs with 150m RVR, they should only get paid 1/8 of the hourly rate. Next time time Farnborough have an hour with no outbounds, maybe they should not get paid at all?
GT3, Arrivals iseasy, that's why all our trainees have had no problem at all with picking it up in the past few years.
GT3, Arrivals iseasy, that's why all our trainees have had no problem at all with picking it up in the past few years.
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Originally Posted by Gonzo
GT3, Arrivals iseasy, that's why all our trainees have had no problem at all with picking it up in the past few years.
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Originally Posted by ukatco_535
Compared to working at a single runway airport or an airport with intersecting runways, with circuit traffic etc, yes; it is!! I will still grant you that ground would be interesting, in a not a very nice way!
Mad as a mad thing and hooting and a roaring.
The banding issue happened 2 years ago... it is not going to change in the forseeable future.
What other method do you suggest to pay the units that are more complex/busier??
I do not think that banding is perfect - far from it - but how else can people be 'rewarded' for complexity etc.
I do believe that the banding system should be re-assessed every pay deal instead of it being a done thing.
Sorry, but that is not a legitimate argument if people are then going to bitch about things.
So, now you get exactly the same pay deal as band 5 units, you vote yes?? Screw the new trainees tho eh 'cos this time you are all right - now thats showing the united front that you talk about.
Not
Tell you what; lets do the pay deals in future with a 'cost of living' factor thrown in as well... because the paltry inner/outer London weighting does not even begin to touch the difference in costs...
Mad as a mad thing and hooting and a roaring.
The banding issue happened 2 years ago... it is not going to change in the forseeable future.
What other method do you suggest to pay the units that are more complex/busier??
I do not think that banding is perfect - far from it - but how else can people be 'rewarded' for complexity etc.
I do believe that the banding system should be re-assessed every pay deal instead of it being a done thing.
Sorry, but that is not a legitimate argument if people are then going to bitch about things.
So, now you get exactly the same pay deal as band 5 units, you vote yes?? Screw the new trainees tho eh 'cos this time you are all right - now thats showing the united front that you talk about.
Not
Tell you what; lets do the pay deals in future with a 'cost of living' factor thrown in as well... because the paltry inner/outer London weighting does not even begin to touch the difference in costs...
Lets see multiple runways,traffic mix,yes this is complex,but ..wait a minute,they took all this things out of the equation when calculating complexity!lets see what a/f in the south have multiple rwy ops and a very varied traffic mix?traffic mix was however kept in the equation when calculating complexity on the area side,mmmm how convenient.
sorry for being a cynic but at my unit if you calculate complexity and leave multiple rwy ops and traffic mix out of the equation,its what you call being severely shafted!