E-Fizz

I've read lots of posts from extremely well academically qualified people on Pprune. Although I am qualified myself I don't have a degree. Do you think this is something that would hinder entry into the airlines?

I have yet to start flight training as I am putting the cash together from all sources and trying to plan the best route - which brings me on to one more point; I've read many overviews of what JAA modular training providers offer both here in the UK and in the USA. My plan is to PPL - IMC - Night in the US - ATPL ground in the UK - Hours in US - CPL/IR in UK/USA. There is no specific multi-engine. Please tell me, where do I start to experience this, in the CPL/IR or do I have to specifically book a course to do it? I know under JAR there is a requirement for ME in the CPL but if I don't do it until then, will this be detramental? Thanks.

scroggs

This is a no-brainer, these days. Go to University and get a degree. Yes, I know you will hear many stories about how it's possible to get a flying job without one, and some of the less wise here will say that the earlier you get on an airline's seniority list the better. However, they never seem to mention the many who opt out of university and yet fail to get a flying job. Where do they stand in the overall scheme of things? I'll tell you: a lot further down the slippery pole than the people who persevered and got the degree.
As has been mentioned above, there are a great many advantages to going to university, and very few disadvantages. You are young and have plenty of time. Make yourself as employable as possible to as many employers as possible. You could be one of the probably 70% of wannabes who don't make it to your dream job.

Lucifer

Mate, if you're not already committed to Navy or whatever you decided eventually, go to one near a UAS, do 2 years and drop out then decide on RAF/civvy etc. As for the degree, I personally would not go for a purely aviation-based one, however if you feel you can cope with aeronautical engineering then go for it, but without the maths it would be a struggle IMHO.

You need to ask yourself what you are good at, since it really does not make much difference to employers what sort of degree you actually did. If you go for the av management route, are you interested in psychology, management and all aspects of what is taught around the ATPL. If not, just go for your economics, history, politics, chemistry or whatever you have a deep interest in, because it may be better to get the broad knowledge, rather than to go straight down the aviation road all the way.

Good Luck

Hornetboy

What if you have absolutely no interest in anything outside the aviation field? What if you're one of those guys that's gonna end up reading maths/science/history/economics/etc textbooks with stary, glazed-over eyes, thinking, "Why am I still doing this when I'm out of school?". Aren't those aviation degrees pretty useful for the field you're about to enter? At all??

mad_jock

Stick with your first idea of a engineering / professional degree, just one which is more practical than heavy maths.

The employment rates for all the acredited courses have been in the 90's for years and most engineers don't acually work as engineers because of there problem solving training and managment/ accounts courses. They get employed in all sectors accounts through to IT although not many in personel deptments .

In fact i believe that engineers have a higher rate of first time passes in Chartered Accountacy that accounts graduates.

And the old joke "What do you say to a arts graduate in there first job...." is unfortuntely in the experence of my friends very true unless they joined the forces or became Teachers.

MJ

Lucifer

I agree, itsallmagic, but there has to be real commitment and no an inkling of a doubt, plus as said before that you don't want to commit too early to one route. It is I have to say a safer bet than just gaining an ATPL and hoping for an airline job with no degree.

ScottishSteve

i'm at Strathclyde, doing business. Currently going thru the stages for UAS. Most (In fact all but 4) are at Glasgow doing aero engineering...and its a good degree, but i'd say do something other than aviation led degree, as you may end up wanting (or indeed having to) work in another industry. And be warned-joining the UAS, at least as i've found, really makes you want to join the RAF after the degree! Good luck whatever you do mate.

JT8

Rusty,

If you didn't do maths a-level you will not be accepted onto an aero eng course. Thats not a bad thing, as its a 'challenging' course even with the maths (like I found).

Do a degree you are interested in, and will do well in. Having said that, as mentioned here; science and engineering degrees are always well regarded, and provide a good foundation for a wide range of careers.

Good luck!
JT8

MikeSamuel

Coventry University do an "Aerospace Technology" BEng I think...Might be just what you are after, as I assume it would be less maths intensive. Worth checking it out. Although I wouldn't recommend Coventry for anything....ever

Regards,

MS

Tonkenna

Rusty,

If you decide that the RAF is the way ahead then it makes no diference what degree you do. Pick a uni with a UAS and do whatever you like and have fun

Tonks

Jason2000

Rusty,

Only do an Aero. Engineering degree if you really think you would benefit from it.

They are hard degrees, and if you are not inclined to that 'sort' of study, it is better that you do something you are good at and get a good degree rather than do an Aero degree and get just an average grade.

If you do want to do an Aero. Engineering degree and you don't have a Maths A-level, you could always do a foundation year: I know a number of uni's do them- you just do an extra year of study, the first basically being a 'catch-up' course.

Do bear in mind that all of the people on my course have studied Maths though and we are all finding it difficult now we are in year 2 !!!

Best of luck

Jason

Rusty Cessna

Thanks for all the replies folks, I'ts making the decision a little easier!

Tonkenna,

Did you get my e-mail? I have fears my computer may be playing mind games with me!

Many thanks,
Rusty.

shifatur

hi guys
this is a cool forum for ppl like me. i am doing my bachelors in english literature, but have wanted to become a pilot since i was six.

i was accepted by embry riddle and uni. of north dakota, both very good schools offering aviation degrees. however, a twist in the word "luck" spoilt all my dreams and now i find myself studying "literature".

i talked to lots of pilots and most of them dont have degrees in aviation. then again, a die-aviation minded guy like me should go for the a "major" he would want to build a career in, right?

when things dont work out the way u want, there's nothing much u can do about that. u have to be satisfied with what u "r" doing.

having a non-aviation degree is not a "period" for pilots. infact, most of the airline pilots in todays world are without one, as i was quoting earlier. so......... i really dont care if i am without an aviation degree. i am happy!!!

ciao and keep this place rocking!!! null

Tonkenna

Rusty,

I did, did you not get my reply?

Tonks

Just incase I have re-sent it.

[ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: Tonkenna ]

WX Man

Simple... do one you enjoy. If you enjoyed (for instance) Physical Geography at A level, do a degree in Geology with Geography.

Remember that it's got to retain your interest for 3 long, hard years!

SpeedBird22

Hello,

I agree with Lucifers post earlier on also WX Man. Firstly, you won't even get your degree if you choose it purely because you think it'll help you out as a pilot. SO choose something you want to do cause its bloody hard anyway.

Secondly, personally I wouldn't bother with an aviation related one. One of my friends who is an instructor started Aero Eng but dropped out in the second year just because he didn't enjoy it.

Try and choose a multipurpose degree. I'm in my second year of Law which I reckon is one of the best fallbacks to have.

Happy flying,

BAW22

cooldude

Hello all, im 16 and just doing my gcse's for alevel i will be doing chemistry physics and geography. i have just started thinking about university and have found this degree that interests me : http://www.city.ac.uk/engineering/ato/ it is a course that combines a degree with an ATPL, it is a very expensive option but do you people think it is worth it? please take a look at the site. i would have to take a loan from my parents and pay it off after the degree working with my dad. I have thought about joining the RAF and becoming a pilot there, what do people think of it. i dont want to be treated like a piece of turd for a few years, i dont know if that image is true but on tv people in army type jobs get treated like school kids. thankyou very much for your time and i hope you reply.

scroggs

I know nothing about the course you refer to, and I'm sure others will comment appropriately. I would like to pick you up on your somewhat cursory impression of the RAF. The RAF is not 'an army type job'. They wear uniform, but that's about the limit of the similarity. Assuming you were up to the task, you would not 'be treated like a piece of turd' nor, unless you deserved it, 'like a school kid'.

If you wish to seriously consider the RAF as a place to begin your flying career, check out the RAF's careers website (I think it's www.rafcareers.com - if not, someone will correct me). The RAF is a highly professional workplace, with incredibly high standards. It is neither a place to belittle others, nor a place to while away time gaining hours towards a civilian licence. Unless you take it seriously, you will never be considered for its exceptional training and excellent flying.

As you might guess, I spent a considerable amount of time in the RAF as a pilot, instructor and recruiter.

cooldude

thanks for your reply, i was not planning to join the RAF just to build up hours i would remain there for many years and eventually leave to become a commercial pilot. im sorry if my outsider impression was incorrect, its just that i dont want to be treated like the people are in the army. I dont think i could take that. Thanks for advice and i will now seriously consider a RAF career.

P.Pilcher

Cooldude - If you use the search engine on this forum you will find that the question of a university degree and in what subject has been examined at great length for your colleagues with similar concerns to yourself. The idea of a degree before doing a course of flying training is to give yourself an alternative to flying should you lose that hard won flying job due to redundancy or loss of medical. As I am sure you are aware, both are very real possibilities. Although this degree appears to enable you to continue working in the airline industry should your flying have to cease, there are two problems with it. First, the award of the qualification depends on you achieving an ATPL in a year. With the uncertainties of achieving this goal due to weather and exam re-sits, you may find your financial budget exceeded by a considerable margin. Second, if you lose your job it may be because of the cyclic depression in the aviation industry so there will be no ground aviation jobs available either. Thus if there is another subject that interests you which will enable you to take up a completely alternative career then this is worth serious consideration. I am sure you will have read posts from our honourable moderator about alternatives to a degree which also make a lot of sense. Remember that at most times all an airline will want to offer you a job is a licence and find at interview that their potential first officer is an "interesting" person.

best of luck with your final decision.