Having taught for several thousand hours in the RAF, I know how they do it at least, and it works brilliantly (not to say there isn't a better way of course, but I haven't seen it).

When a PAT comes out of a cows arse, it goes down. When a helicopter goes down, being it the initiation of the descent or the level off, it's PAT. Bear in mind that what you might be doing with the attitude is (trim button IN) holding it constant. For the climb and level it is APT. If you are in the cruise faster than your climb speed, then selecting a decel att has the benefits of starting the climb whilst reducing speed to best RoC or whatever you need. If you are already at the climb speed in the cruise, then hold the attitude.

I taught basic and advanced rotary at Shawbury, SH and SAR at OCU/Sqn level, did Standards and trapped. I never once saw an occasion where these techniques did not work perfectly, without modification. Pilots I have flown with in Civvy street who did not 'learn' these techniques, tend to do them anyway, without knowing what they were called - it's a natural way to fly.

Helicopters defy the laws of physics and techniques to fly the 'orrible clattering things are not to be confused with the art of flying proper aeroplanes....


...:p

Well said BEagle !!:ok::ok:

This would be ideal in theory, but as soon as you get a low hour student into the air he loses 75% of his brain and many will not remember what was explained half an hour before on the ground, so I find explaining it on the ground and then having something simple to help apply it works well for most.

Oh, I think you are being a bit harsh there Foxmoth
Fifty per cent is probably more like it. So how is he going to remember what the PAT and stuff mean? Could we use "more power for up, and the stick changes the pitch attitude"? And "the aircraft follows the movement of your hand"?

piper your teaching frogs how to fly.

Foxmouth is teaching folk from Hampshire.

You could both be correct. Depending on the the local gene pool or lack of it.

So... Just 'cause I'm following along.... The Frence manage to fly without Piper C. having to use code to teach. The Brits like to demonstrate their amazing multi tasking skills; memorizing, decoding, and flying all at once?

It has been said that helicopters only fly because the earth rejects them... But I sure did learn a lot about flying fixed wing with precision, while getting my helicopter license...

I get the first bit - but this only seems to cover entering a climb, what about when you level off? and I don't get your "the aircraft follows the movement of your hand", are you talking Effect of controls here or climbing and descending:confused:

Where as rotary you learned how to mastabate a mouse?

Hmmm, Osage, Cayuse, Kiowa, Colibri, Squirrel... but no Mouse

Jeezus H Christ.:mad::mad::mad:

[quoteI get the first bit - but this only seems to cover entering a climb, what about when you level off? and I don't get your "the aircraft follows the movement of your hand", are you talking Effect of controls here or climbing and descending][/quote]

It's actually quite hard to separate effects of conrols from the other lessons, as this is the basis of all flying.

To answer your question,
I didn't give the whole lesson but the basis is to use the stick to control the attitude, and adjust the power to get either climb, descent or level flight at the attitude required. Effects of controls covers this, power is a control. The student needs to learn that there is a relationship between what he does with the flight controls and the engine.
So leveling off I would say "put the aircraft in the cruising attitude, let it accelerate while holding that attitude, then reduce power to cruise power while stopping yaw with the rudder. Ok, are you having to push or pull to hold the attitude? If so, trim out that force as you hold the attitude where you want it"
No decoding required. Except I would say it in French.......
I will accept an approximation to the cruising, climbing, or descending speed, they don't have the instrument scan yet, as long as we are doing what we said we wanted with the rpm about right. I.E blue side up, no yaw or roll, and not going up or down when we said we wanted cruise, and not over red line rpm. The essential thing is to get the student flying without him having to think about what his hands and feet should be doing because they are doing the learning, it's not brain memory it's muscle memory, we are just getting the inputs in the right direction for now.
Do I need to go through what happens to go down?

Climbing, descending and straight and level are another lesson, where we look at doing all the above at different speeds, which means introducing an instrument scan but by then the student should be able to use both hands and his feet to put the aircraft in an appropriate attitude without acronyms and control the changes in yaw, roll, and pitch induced by the whirly thing up front or wherever it is located.

And the aircraft always follows the movement of your hand unless you are spinning it, which comes a little later in the student's progression.

So this is really effect of control which is what was confusing me as you were bringing it into the discussion of Climbing and Descending - I would have done this earlier and not not expect to have to be re-teaching this at the Climbing/Descending stage. Neither would I expect at this stage to be teaching them how to trim as this would also have been taught already (though I would be re enforcing the fact that they need to trim). But then I suppose you teach a little differently in France.

Not really, it is the same syllabus. I personally emphasize some things but we all have our strong points, fetishes, what ever. When I fly with students who have mostly been taught by other instructors I find points that I like to emphasize, and I am sure the same thing applies when my students fly with different instructors. So we manage to get it all across somehow. Mostly I find trimming needs to be hammered home. :ugh:

I have never thought of trimming as a fetish. Although I am beginning to think flying an aircraft in trim is a bit of a perversion.

Whilst I find that it takes time for students to get to grips with trimming I find it is more a case of making sure they have done it rather than constantly telling them how to do it, normally, once they have completed a manoeuvre I ask them if they are happy and then just ask them to take their hands off the controls - they soon realise then the importance of trimming properly.:}

I didn't say I constantly told them HOW to do it, did I? Yes, I expect we all tell them to take their hands off the controls to check. Usually this makes the aircraft fly more smoothly, as well :E

Well:-

when teaching level off, sounds like telling them how to do it at least three lessons after Effect of Controls(1)!!:8

Foxmoth. If you read my post carefully I think you will see that I am teaching handling. Basic how to work the controls to make the aircraft do what you want. Now feel free to have the last word, as this is getting tiring. :ugh:

why do you think I put:-
But you decided to keep it going.