Flying instructor jobs
 

Hi. I was wondering what the job prospects are like for newly qualified flying instructors in the UK and what the pay was like? And how many hours on average per month would a instructor be doing seeing that the UK weather isn't the best.

Cheers

1. Variable.
2. Again variable, but somewhere between £15-£20ph chocks on & off.
3. If you're full time, it varies, but roughly 25 to 35 hours a month in the SW.

Thanks for the reply.

Wow. If those figures are right then wouldn't the pay be like £6000 a year? Which is nothing. Does your salary come from only flying or is there a fixed salary with additional flying duty pay? And only 30 hours a month seems very low.

It depends - if you're FT then probably you'd have a retainer or fixed salary instead, although for a newly qualified FI(R), this would be unusual. Normally you'll start off on hourly pay per flight only, most likely on a self employed contractor basis.

Well, maybe it does, but FT FIs can be expected to do around 500hrs/year, tops.

Sorry whats FT? First time?

Although I want to do it for the experience and also the hours the fact that wages are low you can't build up many hours is not very appealing. The investment of £5K to £8k for training to become one doesn't make sense.

Maybe working the USA as a EASA flight instructor makes more sense. Pay is I think the same. But at least you can get more hours in.

Thank you for the help

Yes. And yeah, wages are low. Market forces at play, sadly.

Did any of the (probably upwards of £80k) investment in your training make financial sense given the current state of the industry, expected pay, and the outlay required?

It's a pity that it's seen as a way to build hours, IMHO.

I am not pursuing a career in aviation because of the pay or status. I am doing it because I love flying and it is the only thing I have ever seen myself doing since I was a child.

I think its seen as a option because you might as well get paid for building up hours. Because unfortunately nowadays hardly anyone hires pilots with 200 hours. If they do, they usually require £30000 and then you still get paid badly afterwards. You might as well get the experience from instructing and the hours and once you have build up 500-1000 try your luck in the market. Thats my opinion.

I wasn't saying you were doing it for the status or the money. I was saying from a purely financial viewpoint today, training for a CPL/IR is a crazy decision (sadly). Therefore, viewing the outlay for an FI(R) from a solely financial viewpoint is also crazy.

You don't get paid to build up hours. You get paid to instruct someone how to fly.

But yes, you might as well. And people do, because, as you pointed out, there are scant few other options available. However, I still think it's a pity.

If you only knew how much that comment pisses me off.....

With an attitude like that you better hope you never send your CV to me for flying or commercial work.

And why does that comment piss you? Why not build up extra hours through instructing? In my opinion and my instructors it improves your flying skills and also gives you that extra experience that will make you stand apart from other people with minimal experience or hours gained just through hour building by themselves.

Instructing is about giving the best to educate others. It is not about having somebody else pay to provide you with experience and it is not a last resort.

It is little wonder that we have so many crap new pilots around when the Instructors teaching them are only there to build hours at there expense and move on.

The only reason I became an Instructor was because I was pissed off sitting next to idiots droning on about how they were really airline pilots waiting for a proper job.

I am a Commercial Turboprop pilot but also teach and examine and when I am recruiting I look for people who have a broad experience and real passion to teach and fly not those just marking time for something else.

It is also the attitude that teaching is the lowest form of job that keeps hardworking and dedicated career instructors on the bread line.

If I had my way, you would need a wide and varied 800 plus hours before being accepted to be an Instructor.

Go get your experience at your own expense, spend the money on touring and then when you have it and you still want to be an instructor you might have something to offer.

/rant mode off.;)

Because instructing well takes passion and also you give a little bit of yourself to each student if you are doing it properly.

If you had no intention of instructing before you started training stay away from it. All it does is drag the industry down as you use students to build your hours.

Well the point is I want to instruct to get the experience that comes from it. I have a real passion and love of flying and I want to share that with others.

Thank you for your input Bose-x.

Thats kind of my point. You are gaining experience at the expense of those who need to gain experience the most, the students.

The blind leading the blind?

That might be the case. But we all have to start somewhere!!!! How do you think the best instructors out there started? From the bottom and gained the experience and knowledge along the way!!!!

Well I to was an instructor fresh out of school at 220 hours.

But it was always in my plan to do that.

Personally I would never employ and instructor who had an IR or hadn't done the instructors course straight after teh CPL IR.

In fact a CPL/IR MCC'd up FI with a break between finishing and FIC wouldn't be touched with a barge pole.

Well my plan is to do my cpl and then FI straight away. And the MEP, IR and mcc later.

I'm sure you didn't want to Instruct forever. Why did you become an instructor? Answer Honestly now

Been a diving instructor, lorry instructor I have always got alot of satisfaction out of instructing. And know that you get a higher level of understand having to teach something than if you just do it.

Now after moving on to airlines i still hold a valid FI and linetrain.

In a couple of hours I head off to fly with a bloke that has 240 hours and 15 hours on type. Will I be instructing him? Yep. Realistically is it worth the extra I payed for doing it? Not really but I get alot of job satisfaction out of seeing him improve and develop.

If I could get a decent salary that I could live on working 9 to 5 instructing from PPL level up to IR, you could stick your early starts and commercial pressures where the sun don't shine flying the line. But instructing properly is vastly more tiring than flying the line.

I became an FI this year, only a few months after finishing the CPL/IR/MCC, but I had the advantage of having spent the last 8 years instructing on motor gliders in my spare time, so I knew I already loved doing it regardless. And for the sake of full disclosure...it was not my intention to make a living out of instructing right now, but that's life in such a job market (fortunately, it was something I wanted to do at some point in the future anyway).

The problem is, I have flown with PPLs and students now, who have obviously lost out due to p*ss poor instruction and it winds me up no end. I am by no means experienced, but I can recognise rubbish when I see it.

My opinion is that a lot of this is partly down to disinterested and inexperienced "hours building" guys, but also down to a huge lack of standardisation in general (having come from an organisation where you are standardised every 6 months with continuation training between that too, I was amazed at the 3-year long FI rating and its renewal requirements!). But that's a different debate!

I cannot agree more with what MJ has said, but allow me to add my own advice...

1. Your instructors and friends are right; instructing is excellent for the person doing the instructing. It will improve your flying and aviation knowledge no end.

2. If you do not love the idea of teaching in its own right, DO NOT INSTRUCT. You will not enjoy it and your disinterest will show through to your students.

3. It is hard work. Think of all the briefs, debriefs, write-ups, ground lessons that usually you are not paid for (but are just as important to the progression of YOUR student). All of these require your best effort, despite not paying you anything. Think of that student who just can't quite get how to fly a level turn, but you've had a long week and can't be bothered to spend another five minutes reteaching it...Spend the five minutes!.

4. Recognise that you don't know much! Never ever bull**** a student if you don't know the answer to something. Admit you don't know and seek advice from someone who does. Then go back to your student with the correct answer (and you've both learnt something!). Same goes in the air; if you can't get something across to your student, ask someone else how they teach it. Don't waste your time and the student's flogging a dead horse.

5. Never forget what it was like when you were a student and how much you relied on your instructors (and probably believed 100% of what they told you, without reservation). It is a huge responsibility, so take it seriously.

6. Constantly assess yourself on every trip and every board brief. What could you have done better? Never allow your own personal standards of instruction or flying to slip. Go back to the books regularly to make sure you are teaching things correctly (don't let the bad habits slip in!).

So, to sum up, if you think this still sounds attractive, then go for it. The personal (not financial!) rewards are more than worth it. Seeing your student going off solo, the satisfaction when you finally manage to get them to understand landing without crashing :ok:, or seeing them coming back from their skills test with that big grin on their face is what it's all about. Do not do it if it is just a job and hours building to you (and I have a feeling this is probably what MJ was saying...).

P.S. Apologies for the massive essay that this has become! :O

+1 :D:D

H

Never forget what it was like when you were a student.

And when you get to be a Commander never forget what it was like to be a Sub Lieutenant in the right hand seat.

Guys, I agree with both of you. Instruction is for people who want to teach and, at the same time, to learn. That is the best part, because you gain experience (not talking about the hours), but it also demands sacrifice. BUT ...

You can't say a 'hour builder' is going to be a bad instructor := my VFR instructor was 22, started the FI course a year and a half after finished his ATPL training and I put my hands on fire he was one of the best instructors in my flight school. His intentions were to build time AND teach! And he did it very well. Of course, there is the opposite side, and I agree with what you said but there are exceptions as I said.


So and if someone is now working on his/her job, to earn some money because they don't have to do a FI course, it will take a while, right? You can't discriminate someone until you know the real reasons for that brake, You have to pay for your rating, and if someone is working towards a FI course, would you say that person is not keen with instruction?


LAI, great post ! :D :ok:

I'm an FI who's never had aspirations outside of instructing. While that might resonate well with some of the posters here, I'm very aware that FIs like me are limited in some respects by having no line flying or operational experience. Perhaps it's not needed in elementary flying training but some of the ppl students with commercial aspirations would benefit from being around a "proper" pilot. So the "career instructor" is not the panacea of instruction.

And for the OP's benefit...the optimum situation for an FI is to be part-time and have another job to pay the bills. I couldn't do this full-time and pay the bills. I have to say that of all the things I've ever done (BSc, PhD, CPL, IR, and the rest), the FI course has easily been the most satisfying, challenging, gratifying and fun course I've ever done. Just don't rely on the qualification to pay a living wage (I average 15 hours a month as a part-timer).

Good luck!

Not at all. Given the licences and ratings for which instruction is within the privileges of an FI, no line flying or operational experience is necessary. Operational flight training should be left to the better qualified and experienced TRIs and SFIs.

IM why should a FI have any experence line flying?

Thats not what your teaching. You teaching them to look out the window trim the aircraft and get from A to B and deal with any emergencys on the way.

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons I changed flying schools 11hours into my ppl from an international airport based school to a local members flying club where I was instructed from an ex ba captain and a lady pilot both ultimate professionals.i am now 43 hours in and waiting to sit my skills test.At the first school I had hour building pilots teaching me and it was a new instructor nearly every other flight and I seemed to be getting nowhere and wasn't at solo standard when I changed schools,every lesson felt rushed and there was very little pre flight briefing.within 4hours at the new school I soloed then went from strength to strength with every lesson because of the dedicated passion my instructors had for flying and their teaching ability,so in my view as a student if you aren't dedicated to the teaching aspect of the fi rating please don't be another hour building fatpl just taking students hard earned money from them because it's a pricey enough career as it is without the added expense of students throwing their money at crap teaching:=::=

I'm sure you didn't want to Instruct forever. Why did you become an instructor? Answer Honestly now

Actually some do, like me who has a successful business and wanted nothing more than to instruct.

bose-x and MJ are spot on this subject and their comments sum up this game 100%.

Of course there are many excellent airline pilot instructors in GA, but the passion was there from the begining, not as a desperate last resort because the plan A failed. If Instructing was not in your overall game plan for a flying career, please please stay away.

If you compare GA with the other instructing such as microlights you we see the evidence. Microlight instructors I know earn 30 - 40K a year BECAUSE THEY ARE NO HOUR BUILDERS WHO HAVE PUSHED INSTRUCTOR PAY AND CONDITIONS DOWN , AND THEY THEREFORE EARN A REASONABLE HOURLY RATE.

Hi all,

I don't post on here a lot but after reading this brilliant thread :ok: I decided to take the plunge with my 2 cents worth.

I've had my fATPL for two years now and I've had no luck at all on the job front, like many others as well.

Like a lot of guys I've got a huge passion for Flying and Aviation in general, I've only got 300hrs so the industry is still very new to me and I'm still learning, I had to do the MEP/IR first, like most I really didn't fancy doing all those exams again and not to mention the money problems along the way.

Other pilots always ask me what am I going to do, go to this airline or that airline or bush fly etc etc etc but the truth is I just love Flying and all I want is to make some sort of a living out of it at the end of the day.

The only thing that has really appealed to me since passing the CPL/IR is doing the Instructors Course, after reading this thread now that's exactly what I'm going to do.

Over the last year I feel I've been like a dog chasing my own tail :ugh: but this thread has really inspired me to finally go out and take the plunge, I find it really difficult to try and express my passion and enthusiasm in writing but for those who can a massive thumbs up.

After reading a lot of posts on here this one has really made me think what I love about Flying, when I think back I can relate to a lot of things you guys said about being an instructor, all the ones I've had I looked up to them as gods in my early training and without doubt when I look back, learning to Fly for my PPL has been the best experience in all of my Flight Training to date.

I know as a PPL instructor I won't make a huge ammount of money, it's never been about getting the hours in for me, I just want to Fly for some sort of a living and maybe after a few years I may want to go down the commercial instruction route, I just hope that I will be able to bring that passion over to my students when it finally happens and be able to inspire them as I was.

Great thread guys, all the best


SB001

Aware, the main reason Microlight instructors get paid more is that the competition isn't as fierce and the cost of running a Microlight and the associated school is very much smaller allowing for reasonable margin to run the business and yes the people who are doing it tend to be the owner of the business so the staff overheads are lower. I'm not saying Microlights aren't brilliant - they are but it's not as one dimensional as that.

The commercial pressure on a flying school to be "as cheap as possible" is very strong and the only place you can reduce cost to maintain competitiveness is to pressure the FIs. It's a vicious circle. That said at my old school the concept was that we would have as few FIs as we could get away with so that they could have as many hours as possible. They fly now between 900 and 1200 hours a year and get paid a reasonable wage.

I-M I'm not sure I think an instructor needs to have flown commercially but a wide and varied experience beyond tommies, C150/2 etc etc and plenty of cross country flying and ****t-hot handling skills makes for the best guys. For me the best instructors I ever had were former fast jet military instructors who had seen just about everything.

If they are doing over 900 they could get into trouble.

The rest of the FTL's don't count but the hard limit of 900 hours does.

Not my problem.

Just out of interest...How?

Is it really impossible to imagine that some people might want to pursue an airline career and be passionate about instructing??

I like most other people on here have spent several years and 1000's of pounds pursuing my dream (blah blah blah!). When I started out I really had no intention of becoming an instructor. However, as I have matured both as a pilot and an individual I have realised that it would immensly fulfilling to pass on what I have learnt to somebody else.

It's not a secret (or a crime) that one day I would like to join an airline. However in reality that is probably still a few years away. There's no way realistically I can afford the £80k it would cost me to reach the golden 1000 hour mark. In the meantime I want to continue learning and developing whilst helping others do the same.

During my time I have been taught by all flavours of instructors (Life time instructors/hour builders/retired-part time instructors) I don't think I have ever come across somebody who wasn't passionate about what they do and all of them have different pros/cons. A least somebody fresh out of the CPL/IR trail is still in touch with the modern generation of trainee pilot, with an appreciation of the cost and impact it has on the rest of your life. Rather than just treating you as a commercial asset or a way of funding the flying school christmas party.

I hope that that as a new instructor I can pass on my experience (no matter how much that might be) and learn from my students and peers. I also hope that I can maintain a level of respect for any fellow pilot regardless of where the want to take their flying in the future. If I only end instructing for 12 months then so be it, but I will approach it with the same attitude as I have with everything else and make it a success. I hope that it is something I will be able to continue to do alongside my future career, or something that I can return to in time.

Whatever happens I am fed up of being told that I can't build experience and be a good instructor. Wake up and realise that the aviation industry has changed in the last 30 years!

Why have a pop at someone wanting to instruct to build hours to then get an airline job when not long ago it was the main way to go from BCPL to CPL? ie 700 hrs.

When I learn't to fly, ever single instructor I had was building hours to move on. They may not have seen instructing as their calling in life but they adpated to it, acted professionally and seemed to enjoy it.

If you are going down the Ryanair/Easy/pay-for-your-type rating route, then FI will mean next to nothing. But there are still oufits that appreciate FI experience such as Eastern, flybe and many corporate/air taxi operators. You can also tick the 'in current flying practice' box rather than have to stump up for aircraft hire yourself.

I'm sure you didn't want to Instruct forever. Why did you become an instructor? Answer Honestly now




How can you be so sure? Would you say the same thing to a school teacher/driving isntructor/diving instructor etc etc? That they must only be doing it because they couldn't get a "proper" job?

I've been instructing and examining for 22 years and 11,000 hours because it is a career path I deliberately chose, not because nothing "better" came along. If you do the job well you can make a good living out of it. If you just want to milk students to fill up your log book, don't expect to get any satisfaction out of it. And don't think that won't be glaringly obvious in a job interview.

Not all of us want to fly shiny jets, I think it would be a horrible way to make a living and I know a lot of people who have gone down that path and wish they hadn't, for career, family and financial reasons.


And I certanly didn't get into this career because of any emotive sentiments like "love" "dream" and "passion" which belong in people's love lives, not their professional lives!

Clare Prop, is this partly to do with the weather in Aus though? In the UK I've read on here that PPL instructors typically earn £20 - £25 per hour and can expect realistically to fly 500 hours per year. That equates to £10k - £12.5k per year. With the cost of living in the UK that is barely enough to live on let alone have any kind of life.

I'd love to instruct but just see how it can be viable unless doing you're wealthy enough not to need the money, or doing it part time alongside a better paying job. Unfortunatley job satisfaction does not pay the bills!

I instructed in Europe before I moved out here and yes I did have not one but three other jobs to keep the roof over my head whilst gaining early experience.

My point though is that if you want to make a career out of it you can, it doesn't have to be just a means to an end. You just have to work very hard to get established in the early stages as do people in many other professions.

And it is often the people with "drems, love and passion" who keep the wages down!

its changed as well with this EASa stuff, there are effectively walls within the experence requirements which would make it extremely hard and expensive to jump over to remain in instructing through out your career and progress beyon PPL level instructing without having gone and done a bit of commercial flying before returning.

I have a confession to make: I had no intension of instructing when I got my CPL ticket, I just looked at the FI job for hour building and I was quite nervous when starting my FI career that I was going the wrong way :uhoh:

However, I said to myself since my students are paying a lot of money for the lessons, then they deserve a dedicated and enthusiastic, professional instructor. I took my job very seriously and after taking a few highly motivated people from 0 hours to first solo and beyond and seeing them achieve their goals, my view on the FI job changed. I highly enjoy teaching people to fly and sharing my experience with others. I've set my standards high for all my students regarding stick and rudder skills and pride myself of producing high quality pilots.

Am I going to "jump ship" and leave my FI job for an airline job if I get the chance? Yes I will. Do I regret taking the FI route? No I don't and I wouldn't want to trade my FI-hours for anything else. I have found out that instructing is a very rewarding experience and hopefully I can pass my passion of flying on to my students

For those of us that do want to become career instructors and who want to progress into MEP IR instruction, what kind of salary can you earn then?

I would like to think by that time you could ask for a reasonable wage of £25k surely?

Is it not true that EASA forcing schools to become ATO's will mean that any one student can only go through 3 instructors? Will this not help force schools into employing more reliable long term employees? (I may be well off the mark with this by the way!)