Solo authorisations?
PPRuNe Knight in Shining Armour
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Solo authorisations?
I recently sent a student on his first solo land away. Naturally, as a restricted FI, solo authorisations are important at the moment, but I'm not clear on whether this should constitute 2 authorisations for the 2 flights, or whether it's only one?
What do you lot say?
What do you lot say?
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I logged those flights as how ever many legs for the restriction removal. I know some people will argue with this. It all really comes down to the person who is supervising you and what they are willing to signoff.
Didn't have any hassels from Gatwick.
MJ
Didn't have any hassels from Gatwick.
MJ
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I remember asking the CAA, many years ago, as to why I (as a student) need not carry the aircraft documents required under the relevant schedule of the Air Navigation Order.
The response was that they view a training flight that departs and returns to the same airfield - even if it lands away at one or more airfields during that day - to be a single flight and, as such, the aircraft documents were not an in-flight requirement.
That would suggest the answer to your question is - ONE.
The response was that they view a training flight that departs and returns to the same airfield - even if it lands away at one or more airfields during that day - to be a single flight and, as such, the aircraft documents were not an in-flight requirement.
That would suggest the answer to your question is - ONE.
MJR
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Yet again something which isn't in LASORS.
O well bit late now for me.
Another one is the inclusion of ex 3's in the 100 hours, in LASOR's it says you can't use them but it dosn't mention it anywhere else.
BEagle is there any chance that these type of points for FI's could be answered by a FAQ doc published by the CAA?
MJ
O well bit late now for me.
Another one is the inclusion of ex 3's in the 100 hours, in LASOR's it says you can't use them but it dosn't mention it anywhere else.
BEagle is there any chance that these type of points for FI's could be answered by a FAQ doc published by the CAA?
MJ
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As you only brief and authorise the student once, it counts as one flight. If you care to drive to the land away airfield and rebrief the student you could probably claim it as two!
A qualifying X Country counts as one, not 3.
A qualifying X Country counts as one, not 3.
Strate and Level - that is your opinion only, not CAA policy as you well know.
If you really want to be picky, what would happen if you authorised a student to fly 2 visual circuits. Then taxy in, stop, get a quick cockpit re-brief and re-auth, then taxy out for a second session of 2 visual circuits.....then another.....and another.... 25 authorisations would come fairly quickly that way!
Flight time is from 'the moment at which the ac commences taxying with the intention of taking-off until the moment it ceases normal taxying after landing. Hence by the Eurocracy which even you at the SRG can't deny, 3 legs are 3 flights. Each flight requires specific authorisation; so that's 3 authorisations.....
MJ - such a FAQ would require someone at the CAA to come up with policy. That would need legal backing to have any substance - so you'll probably get the usual sloping of shoulders until someone at the Belgrano takes the bull by the horns and says "You'll do it this way because I b£oody well say so!".
If you really want to be picky, what would happen if you authorised a student to fly 2 visual circuits. Then taxy in, stop, get a quick cockpit re-brief and re-auth, then taxy out for a second session of 2 visual circuits.....then another.....and another.... 25 authorisations would come fairly quickly that way!
Flight time is from 'the moment at which the ac commences taxying with the intention of taking-off until the moment it ceases normal taxying after landing. Hence by the Eurocracy which even you at the SRG can't deny, 3 legs are 3 flights. Each flight requires specific authorisation; so that's 3 authorisations.....
MJ - such a FAQ would require someone at the CAA to come up with policy. That would need legal backing to have any substance - so you'll probably get the usual sloping of shoulders until someone at the Belgrano takes the bull by the horns and says "You'll do it this way because I b£oody well say so!".
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You must admit though BEagle half of the stuff that gets asked isn't stupid in this forum its purely lack of documentation by the powers that be.
What is supervised etc.
This should be pretty much in stone but it isn't.
A new FI out of school dosn't have a clue what is normal and what isn't. We are way open for abuse by the school owners and CFI's and we could be putting our careers at risk because of what we were told.
BTW 9 out of the list for my solo send offs (3 legs each so 3 flights) were QXC sign offs what am I ment to do now hand my Unresricted lic back in to become restricted again?
MJ
What is supervised etc.
This should be pretty much in stone but it isn't.
A new FI out of school dosn't have a clue what is normal and what isn't. We are way open for abuse by the school owners and CFI's and we could be putting our careers at risk because of what we were told.
BTW 9 out of the list for my solo send offs (3 legs each so 3 flights) were QXC sign offs what am I ment to do now hand my Unresricted lic back in to become restricted again?
MJ
MJ - you have my sympathy! Quite a lot of the stuff asked on this forum can be answered by a look at LASORS. But there are certainly some points which keep cropping up and which it would help if there was clearer information available from the Belgrano.....
I wouldn't worry about your solo sign-offs - it's a typically stupid piece of Eurocracy in the first place, it isn't properly defined and is open to interpretation. The most important thing is to have your supervisor's recommendation and to have completed the qualifying 100 hours of instruction.
I wouldn't worry about your solo sign-offs - it's a typically stupid piece of Eurocracy in the first place, it isn't properly defined and is open to interpretation. The most important thing is to have your supervisor's recommendation and to have completed the qualifying 100 hours of instruction.
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I seem to remember that we had a discussion about the 1 hour flight with an Instructor and could you land away on this flight.
If you do land away that would be two flights and the rules said that it should be one.
The CAA agreed that if you land away that is TWO FLIGHTS but if they were both in the same day it would count for this purpose.
We seem to be looking at the same problem now from a different angle.
For what its worth I logged qualifying cross countries as three flights and had no problems from Gatwick.
If you do land away that would be two flights and the rules said that it should be one.
The CAA agreed that if you land away that is TWO FLIGHTS but if they were both in the same day it would count for this purpose.
We seem to be looking at the same problem now from a different angle.
For what its worth I logged qualifying cross countries as three flights and had no problems from Gatwick.
PPRuNe Knight in Shining Armour
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Thanks for the input folks.
My CFI is prepared to sign me off for each flight (as defined by BEagle) so I'm lucky I guess. Nevertheless, I'm grateful for your input, it makes me more certain that he knows his stuff.
My CFI is prepared to sign me off for each flight (as defined by BEagle) so I'm lucky I guess. Nevertheless, I'm grateful for your input, it makes me more certain that he knows his stuff.
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A note of caution from experience - I had my application for removal of restriction rejected by CAA for logging QXC as 3 flights.
This didn't cost me anything except time dealing with the CAA and having to get 2 more signatures.
Other instructors at my school logged QXC as 3 flights and got away with it.
Moral of the story is it depends who checks your application at Gatwick, so if you decide to chance it keep logging signatures in case it gets rejected.
Barney
This didn't cost me anything except time dealing with the CAA and having to get 2 more signatures.
Other instructors at my school logged QXC as 3 flights and got away with it.
Moral of the story is it depends who checks your application at Gatwick, so if you decide to chance it keep logging signatures in case it gets rejected.
Barney
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In response to BEagle's facetious remark about briefing for consecutive visual circuits, that is exactly what has happened at flying schools with which I have had an association. But of course it is within the guidelines. Possiblity of 5 solo sign-offs in one afternoon......
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more than one have done it BEagle.
Some schools the instructor is payed to supervise the student solo. Which means all the old wood nick the solo sign offs so they get payed for FA. So even if the instructor has trained them up to that point they are lucky to get a sign off afterwards.
Whats the pupose of the solo send offs anyway?
MJ
Some schools the instructor is payed to supervise the student solo. Which means all the old wood nick the solo sign offs so they get payed for FA. So even if the instructor has trained them up to that point they are lucky to get a sign off afterwards.
Whats the pupose of the solo send offs anyway?
MJ
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Removal of restrictions should be based on an instructors overall experience say 500 hours of dual instruction and recommendation of the CFI. Solo supervision proves nothing other than you have briefed sufficiently to get the student back in one piece. How many instructors are given good students in order to clock up the requirements. Good judgement only comes from experience, which i think cannot be gained in a few hundred hours instructing.
Agree with you, Bob. But it's all part of the Eurocracy of JARs....
Personally I sit in the back and watch one of my FI(R)s teaching a dual trip once he/she has achieved his/her 100+25 before I'll sign them off to the CAA. And no, I don't log the hours!
Personally I sit in the back and watch one of my FI(R)s teaching a dual trip once he/she has achieved his/her 100+25 before I'll sign them off to the CAA. And no, I don't log the hours!
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In my view the removal of the restriction is far too easy. I agree with the post suggesting 500 hours minimum experience before the removal. I believe that you only gain enough experience by having instructed through all the seasons in this country because the met conditions are so varied. You have to gain experience in judgment which takes time and just cannot be speeded up. i also believe it is appropriate to do another test for the removal of the restriction, because now the examiner can actually test your instructional ability and technique, whereas first time round he is only testing for potential. I agree with Beagle that a course would be a good idea too.
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I also think that the night rating restriction removal is a bit dodgy.
I payed and extra 100 quid to do an hour with the FII and thought it was agood idea.
How wrong i was. Its the blind leading the blind I had 20 night (15 IFR which isn't much use) at the time and wouldn't say I was all that hot at night flying. When my first night rating came up I hadn't flown at night for 6 months and all i got was the standard 3 circuits which were fought for because i have a IR rating and the boss reckoned i could teach after 1 circuit.
First lesson suddenly realised that the work load was at least 4 times as much as during the day.
I reckon that you must have more experence than just your night rating then 1 hour restriction removal.
And before anyone starts I know you only get IFR at night what i meant was the other 15 hours was IR training under screens not IFR and responsable for your own ground seperation.
MJ
I payed and extra 100 quid to do an hour with the FII and thought it was agood idea.
How wrong i was. Its the blind leading the blind I had 20 night (15 IFR which isn't much use) at the time and wouldn't say I was all that hot at night flying. When my first night rating came up I hadn't flown at night for 6 months and all i got was the standard 3 circuits which were fought for because i have a IR rating and the boss reckoned i could teach after 1 circuit.
First lesson suddenly realised that the work load was at least 4 times as much as during the day.
I reckon that you must have more experence than just your night rating then 1 hour restriction removal.
And before anyone starts I know you only get IFR at night what i meant was the other 15 hours was IR training under screens not IFR and responsable for your own ground seperation.
MJ