Side Slipping
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I guess I was lucky - my instructor(s) both PPL and post PPL have all encouraged the use of sideslips. So I use them. The PA28 sideslips well, but, you need to watch your airspeed.
I fly a J3 Cub on a regular basis and so get to practice a lot...
I fly a J3 Cub on a regular basis and so get to practice a lot...
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J-T, Sorry, I've been away. Some Warriors have their static port in the rear fuselage, between the wing and stabilator (look for the shiny round metal plate!) There is (in every Warrior I've flown) an alternative static source in the cockpit. This is activated by turning a small metal "tap" which is under the front edge of the instrument panel, just above your left knee. The whereabouts of the alternate static is usually placarded.
For Knobbygb, no problems that I'm aware of in slipping right.
P
For Knobbygb, no problems that I'm aware of in slipping right.
P
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.. be aware, then, that IAS values are very dependent on PEC which is very, very dependent on flow variations in the vicinity of the static source, especially for keel mounted ports. Most of us are well aware of the small Cessna phenomenon of pulling the aircraft back well into a stall and then watching the IAS disappear off the clock. This doesn't indicate that the speed is zero, only that the instrument is telling porkies ....
The alternate static source in the cockpit is for emergency use in the event of water, ice or other contamination of the the external static source or the plumbing to that source.
The alternate static source in the cockpit is for emergency use in the event of water, ice or other contamination of the the external static source or the plumbing to that source.
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Gee Whiz Julian, I hope you ment dropping down through a "gap" in the clouds instead of "in the clouds". Try this if you don't have alot of room to move. Half flap, low power setting and a steep descending turn at about 10kts above the stall, or on the buffet if you have the feel. What you end with is a tight radius turn. Try it on nice day sometime, it's good fun.
Formation Flyer, I have seen it written in the P.O.H. of the C150 to avoid prolonged unco-ordinated due to the possibility of fuel starvation. As soon as I find it again, I'll let you know.
Cheers,The 150 Driver
Formation Flyer, I have seen it written in the P.O.H. of the C150 to avoid prolonged unco-ordinated due to the possibility of fuel starvation. As soon as I find it again, I'll let you know.
Cheers,The 150 Driver
Last edited by The 150 driver; 12th Oct 2002 at 01:56.
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US terminology to distinguish between an ordinary sideslip and the sort one does on final - still a garden variety sideslip .. do a search on the term .. there was a lengthy thread several months ago ...
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Side Slips Redux
Gosh, everyone should learn how to do side slips. As a Cub pilot they are standard stock for the trade. Nice to see the expression on the face of a newbie when you throw it to the stops and come down like a ruptured duck. No flaps--no problem. 
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!! I can't believe that there are actually people out there who are afraid to do sideslips!!
As for the terminology issue, it's always been a Big pet peeve of mine. Here in Canada, we have one term for forward slip (to lose altitude) and another for sideslip (to line up with the runway in a crosswind) of course, they are the same maneuvre, but 4 out of 5 instructors I have recently spoken to don't realize this. In fact, most of them didn't even realize that while "side slipping" into a x-wind, they are increasing their R of D.
While we're on the topic, I need a good definition for slip, and a good explanation for the differences between skid and slip. I'm working on a ground school course, and so far, I haven't been satisfied with any explanations I've found on the net. Most of them are either complicated or just plain wrong!
I had one that defined a skid as too much bottom rudder where a slip uses top rudder. It works unless you use so much top rudder you begin turning toward the high wing, then you have a skid again.
I can easily define them in terms of relative airflow, but for the private pilot, i would rather use a definition that is more visual and hands on, (from a "how to" point of view)
Just curious to hear how some of you demonstrate these techniques.
As for the terminology issue, it's always been a Big pet peeve of mine. Here in Canada, we have one term for forward slip (to lose altitude) and another for sideslip (to line up with the runway in a crosswind) of course, they are the same maneuvre, but 4 out of 5 instructors I have recently spoken to don't realize this. In fact, most of them didn't even realize that while "side slipping" into a x-wind, they are increasing their R of D.
While we're on the topic, I need a good definition for slip, and a good explanation for the differences between skid and slip. I'm working on a ground school course, and so far, I haven't been satisfied with any explanations I've found on the net. Most of them are either complicated or just plain wrong!
I had one that defined a skid as too much bottom rudder where a slip uses top rudder. It works unless you use so much top rudder you begin turning toward the high wing, then you have a skid again.
I can easily define them in terms of relative airflow, but for the private pilot, i would rather use a definition that is more visual and hands on, (from a "how to" point of view)
Just curious to hear how some of you demonstrate these techniques.
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Hi
I dont understand the difference between a side and a forward slip either.
A slip is a slip is a slip to my simple mind, although I did like the new definition of forward slip as suggested in an earlier post on this thread.
The direction in which you move is determined by the amount of slip you apply.
Max slip is determined by effectivity of rudder.
Max effectiveness of slip is determined by airspeed.
Worse thing that can happen when going to slow is that you do a falling leaf.
You wont spin.
Never flown anything as big as some here let alone slipped it, but when slipping you should fly the attitude and forget about the ASI.
In a glider a good slip gives a negative ASI! Yes as in less than 0 kts.
Have fun and practice with a competent instructor first.
FD
BC Pilot
Sorry only just read all of your post.
Skid and Slip.
Both are uncoordinated flight
Skid too much rudder (hence the stall and spin accidents when pilots are unkeen to use enough aileron and kick the bird round the corner stall, spin and kill themselves)
Slip not enough rudder to the extent that with an intentional slip to lose height you actually have the rudder opposite to the side of the turn.
HTH
FD
I dont understand the difference between a side and a forward slip either.
A slip is a slip is a slip to my simple mind, although I did like the new definition of forward slip as suggested in an earlier post on this thread.
The direction in which you move is determined by the amount of slip you apply.
Max slip is determined by effectivity of rudder.
Max effectiveness of slip is determined by airspeed.
Worse thing that can happen when going to slow is that you do a falling leaf.
You wont spin.
Never flown anything as big as some here let alone slipped it, but when slipping you should fly the attitude and forget about the ASI.
In a glider a good slip gives a negative ASI! Yes as in less than 0 kts.
Have fun and practice with a competent instructor first.
FD
BC Pilot
Sorry only just read all of your post.
Skid and Slip.
Both are uncoordinated flight
Skid too much rudder (hence the stall and spin accidents when pilots are unkeen to use enough aileron and kick the bird round the corner stall, spin and kill themselves)
Slip not enough rudder to the extent that with an intentional slip to lose height you actually have the rudder opposite to the side of the turn.
HTH
FD
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Not enough rudder and too much rudder, I kinda like that! I think I'll use it...
The terms top rudder and bottom rudder or inside rudder and outside rudder are relatively new to me. has anybody used them with students? just wondering what terminology students can get their heads around easiest.
One instructor was teaching skids and slips by describing the feeling of the tail "trying to pass you on the outside" in a slip and the tail "falling inside" on a slip. Interesting, i thought. Others refer to the ball, but i don't like that. A student should be looking at his attitude in a slip, not his t & b.
As for slipping a 172 with full flaps: totally safe! Only problem is that the oscillations freak out the passengers. I avoid doing full-rudder, full flaps slips, as the placard says. I don't have a good reason for avoiding it other than the fact that is feels like those oscillations can't be good for the aircraft. But as far as performance and safety go, there's no problem.
In fact, as a student the full flap full rudder slipping turn saved me a LOT of money by allowing those "abbreviated circuits". You know, alone in the pattern, turn x-wind at 300 feet, climb on downwind, cut power abeam the threshold and slip 'er in!! You can double the number of circuits per hour!! (oh oh, here come the floggings for the poor airmanship!)
The terms top rudder and bottom rudder or inside rudder and outside rudder are relatively new to me. has anybody used them with students? just wondering what terminology students can get their heads around easiest.
One instructor was teaching skids and slips by describing the feeling of the tail "trying to pass you on the outside" in a slip and the tail "falling inside" on a slip. Interesting, i thought. Others refer to the ball, but i don't like that. A student should be looking at his attitude in a slip, not his t & b.
As for slipping a 172 with full flaps: totally safe! Only problem is that the oscillations freak out the passengers. I avoid doing full-rudder, full flaps slips, as the placard says. I don't have a good reason for avoiding it other than the fact that is feels like those oscillations can't be good for the aircraft. But as far as performance and safety go, there's no problem.
In fact, as a student the full flap full rudder slipping turn saved me a LOT of money by allowing those "abbreviated circuits". You know, alone in the pattern, turn x-wind at 300 feet, climb on downwind, cut power abeam the threshold and slip 'er in!! You can double the number of circuits per hour!! (oh oh, here come the floggings for the poor airmanship!)
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BCPilot
You are correct in so far as that sideslipping a 172 with full flaps is safe...........but in the POH of some of the later models (dont know about the R and SP) sideslipping is not allowed.
Have been told that has to do with the elevator buffet.
FD
PS: Where is the top rudder on your aircraft? I have only ever found one on most aircraft and it is usuall on the thin end at the back
You are correct in so far as that sideslipping a 172 with full flaps is safe...........but in the POH of some of the later models (dont know about the R and SP) sideslipping is not allowed.
Have been told that has to do with the elevator buffet.
FD
PS: Where is the top rudder on your aircraft? I have only ever found one on most aircraft and it is usuall on the thin end at the back
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bcpilot:
Why would your abbreviated circuits be " poor airmanship "
From my point of view the " abbreviated circuit " should be manditory for all pilot training.
Actually the circuit you described is quite large, you should cut it in half.
Cat Driver:
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Why would your abbreviated circuits be " poor airmanship "
From my point of view the " abbreviated circuit " should be manditory for all pilot training.
Actually the circuit you described is quite large, you should cut it in half.
Cat Driver:
*****************
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
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abbreviated circuits would be poor airmanship in busy airspace. They are very good practice when things are quiet, though.
So you don't like the terms "top rudder" and "bottom rudder" when referring to a banked plane? Yeah, me either. I'll use that "too much" definition that you gave me. Thanx.
So you don't like the terms "top rudder" and "bottom rudder" when referring to a banked plane? Yeah, me either. I'll use that "too much" definition that you gave me. Thanx.
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Forward Slip - where you are keeping the longitudinal axis of the aircraft in line with a fixed point, flying straight in relation to the ground.
i.e. point the nose at the runway with rudder and counteract the drift with opposite aileron. This is good for a cross wind approach as you can just land on the into wind wheel without having to straighten up. (in other words a standard wing down approach)
Side Slip - your target direction is out to the side of the windscreen. i.e. you are pointing (heading) at 30 degrees to your track, or flying sideways in relation to the ground.
hope this makes sense
i.e. point the nose at the runway with rudder and counteract the drift with opposite aileron. This is good for a cross wind approach as you can just land on the into wind wheel without having to straighten up. (in other words a standard wing down approach)
Side Slip - your target direction is out to the side of the windscreen. i.e. you are pointing (heading) at 30 degrees to your track, or flying sideways in relation to the ground.
hope this makes sense
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PILOTBEAR: it's interesting that you define slips that way because the canadian definitions are opposite what you just posted.
In Canada, what you call the slip depends entirely on your relation with the runway.
In a forward slip, you are "on the localizer" and tracking to the runway, but your longitudinal axis is misaligned. Used to lose altitude.
In a side slip, you are also either tracking in line with the runway with one wing low (only possible in x-wind)
Here's where it gets funny:
We also call it a sideslip when your longitudinal axis is in line with the runway, but you are off the centerline, and tracking to the side to get on the centerline. In this case, your track on the ground is off at an angle, as in a forward slip. The only difference is that the purpose is to change the direction of flight instead of changing the rate of descent.
This is out of the Transport Canada Flight Training Manual (which I loathe)
These definitions are tedious, stupid, and meaningless, since the aerodynamics are identical in all cases if you take away the ground. My biggest problem is that many instructors i've spoken with don't realize this fact, and often, they don't even realize that in a side slip, your rate of descent increases. I would rather term them all simply "slips", and only differentiate when teaching the slipping turn, as it is aerodynamically different.
Of course, I'm in Canada, so I will have to mention the difference in the terms, but I will stress that is is the SAME maneuvre, the only difference is the purpose.
In Canada, what you call the slip depends entirely on your relation with the runway.
In a forward slip, you are "on the localizer" and tracking to the runway, but your longitudinal axis is misaligned. Used to lose altitude.
In a side slip, you are also either tracking in line with the runway with one wing low (only possible in x-wind)
Here's where it gets funny:
We also call it a sideslip when your longitudinal axis is in line with the runway, but you are off the centerline, and tracking to the side to get on the centerline. In this case, your track on the ground is off at an angle, as in a forward slip. The only difference is that the purpose is to change the direction of flight instead of changing the rate of descent.
This is out of the Transport Canada Flight Training Manual (which I loathe)
These definitions are tedious, stupid, and meaningless, since the aerodynamics are identical in all cases if you take away the ground. My biggest problem is that many instructors i've spoken with don't realize this fact, and often, they don't even realize that in a side slip, your rate of descent increases. I would rather term them all simply "slips", and only differentiate when teaching the slipping turn, as it is aerodynamically different.
Of course, I'm in Canada, so I will have to mention the difference in the terms, but I will stress that is is the SAME maneuvre, the only difference is the purpose.
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BCpilot - actually you are correct, I also have a Canadian CPL, I flew floatplane charters in BC last year.
I always think that the definition in the FTM is the wrong way round logically but it is right as you are slipping in a forward direction in a forward slip - Thanks
I just find it easier to think of it that way round, if I am looking out of the side of the aircraft I am going sideways, If I am looking over the nose I am going forward
pilotbear
I always think that the definition in the FTM is the wrong way round logically but it is right as you are slipping in a forward direction in a forward slip - Thanks
I just find it easier to think of it that way round, if I am looking out of the side of the aircraft I am going sideways, If I am looking over the nose I am going forward
pilotbear