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FI course for an airline training Captain?

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FI course for an airline training Captain?

Old 25th May 2024, 18:52
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FI course for an airline training Captain?

Okay... so a bit of a strange one that I'm hoping someone knowledgable in the field of GA can answer:

I'm an experienced UK airline training Captain (jets), who has never done GA (apart from my initial training 20-odd years ago and the occasional pleasure flight). Does my airline training qualification count in any way towards a Flight Instructor qualification? Or would I need to do a full FI course?

Thanks for any help.
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Old 25th May 2024, 20:38
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I believe the teaching & learning (25 hours?) Is common between all instructor ratings.
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Old 26th May 2024, 15:59
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I would do the full course - it’s amazing what you may have forgotten !
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Old 26th May 2024, 16:53
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Of course you must complete the full FI course. The course assumes you have all the knowledge (rarely the case). The purpose of the course is to be trained in how and what to teach to others.
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Old 26th May 2024, 18:15
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Originally Posted by Mr Good Cat
Okay... so a bit of a strange one that I'm hoping someone knowledgable in the field of GA can answer:

I'm an experienced UK airline training Captain (jets), who has never done GA (apart from my initial training 20-odd years ago and the occasional pleasure flight). Does my airline training qualification count in any way towards a Flight Instructor qualification? Or would I need to do a full FI course?

Thanks for any help.
As a TRI you're exempt the 25hrs T&L component. Theoretically you can negotiate a dispensation from CAA, but realistically - I doubt they'd give it to you. With no recent GA experience and no experience teaching ab-initio, you're going to need the full flying course, and probably some extra to refresh basic light aircraft flying. I've seen airline captains take 10+ hours just to get back used to flying SEP again, it really is a totally different flying environment.

I was a current CRI with a decade and mid-3-figure hours teaching in light GA, plus 4-figure SEP hours when I did my FI, and was offered no exemption. In reality I probably could have done the course in 2/3rds of the 25hrs but my GA experience was probably far more relevant to the role than your airline flying.

G
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Old 26th May 2024, 21:26
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Um … it’s 30 hours.
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Old 27th May 2024, 10:27
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So it was, I sit corrected.

Plus the pre-course test, and for most people another 3hrs night to be able to teach for the NQ. So, realistically, about 34˝ to reach FI(R) with night privileges.

And then 5hrs SEP in the 6 months before the pre-course test. So that brings it up to 39˝hrs needed for somebody who has no recent SEP experience. So far as I know the 5hrs can include training and test to get SEP back however. Then say another hour and a half for the FI skill test itself. So about 41hrs for everything.

G
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Old 28th May 2024, 10:34
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Seems some confusion here over hours.

FCL.930

There is a 25 hour teaching and learning course. This is groundschool, usually done over 3-4 days prior to the real meat of the FI course. As a training captain you may have completed training which complies with this, if your airline produces a satisfactory course completion certificate this is the only exception you'll get.

As above, an FI course is 30 flying hours plus 100 hours groundschool, for which you will get no exemption.
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Old 28th May 2024, 21:29
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Originally Posted by Mr Good Cat
I'm an experienced UK airline training Captain (jets), who has never done GA (apart from my initial training 20-odd years ago and the occasional pleasure flight).
Mr. G C,

A bit of an aside but related to a retired airline guy doing GA instructing:

In the UK, as a GA instructor, do have have any civil, financial risk of being sued by the grieving next of kin should your student do something stupid and get killed where they try to get damages by alleging your failure to properly instruct the student ?


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Old 29th May 2024, 12:35
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It has happened, and many instructors carry their own insurance for just that reason.

G
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Old 29th May 2024, 15:33
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Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer
It has happened, and many instructors carry their own insurance for just that reason.

G
I'm surprised to hear that. I assume you're referring to the UK and not the USA ?

I briefly considered doing some GA instructing after retirement but was told by two friends who've done lots of instructing during/after Part 121 retirement to NOT do that for liability reasons (one may have insurance, but who wants the hassle of a lawsuit). One guy stopped instructing and the other says he only instructs people where he knows the family.

It's a shame it's come to this. I don't know that I'd have been a great GA instructor but losing these two guys is a real shame.

Oh well...
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Old 29th May 2024, 17:41
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I'm a UK and EASA instructor, I only have a CPL with no instructor qualifications in the USA, yes I'm describing the UK. I don't know the situation in the USA, but you aren't known for it's lack of willingness to litigate. But, frankly, that's what insurance is for, it's out there to purchase.

G
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Old 29th May 2024, 21:29
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All this stuff about liability is poppycock, at least in the UK. You can only instruct for ab initio in the UK within an ATO or RTF. Both are required to have employer and public liability cover. The instructors tax status (self employed or not) has no bearing on this. Insurers consider instructors in such organisations to be employees for this purpose. The ATO/RTF is directly responsible for their students. The student will have contracted with the school not the instructor/s Its simple for instructors: do your job properly, don't cut corners and ensure the syllabus is covered.

A retired airline pilot can bring a lot to the party. For young men and women, in particular, they will be inspiring.
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Old 29th May 2024, 21:49
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Originally Posted by Fl1ingfrog
All this stuff about liability is poppycock, at least in the UK.
That's good to know and it's nice there is liability insurance available for those in the UK who choose to instruct should they find themselves in a position to have to insure themselves (and their assets) independent of a flight school.

There are zillions of small (and likely big) schools in the USA where the employer is unlikely to offer insurance cover for instructors. And independent instructors are just on their own. I suppose one could form an LLC to protect his assets from law suit but at some point the whole prospect just becomes too complicated to be worth the effort.

Sounds like the UK has a better set up. I hope Mr. Good Cat finds a way to make a valuable contribution.
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Old 30th May 2024, 09:12
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Hi, Get in touch with Carole Cooper at Andrewsfield or the good folk at Ontrack Aviation. Both will be able to help you out
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Old 1st Jun 2024, 16:37
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I concur, On Track usually have an immediate answer to this type of query.
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Old 4th Jun 2024, 20:31
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Would concur with Angos' and Beamer . On-track are very professional , and thoroughly understand airline types . Sorted me out very well after 36 yrs of airlines and now winding down after 14 happy yrs of Fi'ing , meeting great people several of which have sucessfully gone the airline route . Proud of them all , airline or PPL .

rgds condor
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Old 9th Jun 2024, 17:38
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Airline training Captain quickly disappeared when the A´s didn´t fit in to expectations (dreams/hopes!). Classic. Probably LTC with no approved T&L course in the folder. So, yeah, full FI course - which any sensible Captain who haven´t flown SEPs for 20 years, should probably appreciate. Whatever.
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Old 10th Jun 2024, 15:44
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Originally Posted by Klimax
Airline training Captain quickly disappeared when the A´s didn´t fit in to expectations (dreams/hopes!). Classic.
Klimax,

I'd hesitate to be too critical of a retiring airline pilot who pondered getting involved with GA instructing. It might be a natural question for someone who enjoys aviation but is moving from a career position in airline work and wondering how to stay involved in flying (and maybe give back a bit to the profession).

What people might've forgotten is how very different GA is from airline flying (even if one started in GA decades earlier). I think it's a natural oversight.

I had considered the same thing as the OP when I retired from 35 years of airline flying. But on further investigation, it just wasn't for me so I gave up. One of those reasons was that I just have no knowledge of GA or instructing; you'd have to teach me to fly again almost from scratch. I don't know a chandelle from a chandelier. I must have at some point but I sure don't now. It was just too much work...and I'm too lazy.

I do think that at some point, a retired airline pilot would have a lot to contribute to the up-and-coming generation of pilots but he'd just have to be willing to do even more work than his prospective students.

If the OP follows through on his idea of GA instructing, he has my admiration.
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