Flying Instructors & Examiners A place for instructors to communicate with one another because some of them get a bit tired of the attitude that instructing is the lowest form of aviation, as seems to prevail on some of the other forums!

complex conversion

Old 1st Feb 2024, 19:47
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
complex conversion

Is conversion training to a complex single mandatory by an instuctor? or can the previous owner ,not an instructor, do it?
shorehamite is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2024, 20:19
  #2 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 14,210
Received 48 Likes on 24 Posts
It needs an instructor, assuming that the new pilot does not already have the relevant differences training signed off.

If they already have the relevant differences training, and the insurance is fine with it - then any competent and qualified pilot can do it.

G
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2024, 21:01
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
many thanks, theres nothing " signed off " in my licence, but i did my multi rating on an Aztec and flew everything up to B777, so do i still need an instructor sign off in a TB20?

Last edited by shorehamite; 1st Feb 2024 at 21:20.
shorehamite is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2024, 21:33
  #4 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 14,210
Received 48 Likes on 24 Posts
Yes, if the "differences training" features of the TB20 - VP prop and retractable gear aren't entered in your logbook. Of course you also need a current SEP class rating.

Arguably a bit absurd if you covered everything in your MEP training. On the other hand why not just do it anyhow- time with a good instructor is seldom wasted.

G
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2024, 08:51
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bressuire
Posts: 823
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 9 Posts
If you held a multi rating on an Aztec then obviously you have completed training on retractable undercarriage and variable pitch propellers. You are not required to do further training ever. You do need to refer to your insurance policy in order to comply with their demands for the type.

I'm not keen on sellers giving conversion training because they tend to pass on bad habits and biases that may suit them and sometimes more likely influenced by bar talk prejudices. Over the years I've had to unravel too many problems for new owners because of this.
Fl1ingfrog is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2024, 08:57
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 901
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Any differences training must be signed off in a log book, but it's not type specific. An examiner would have signed off the MEP test in the log book, which would have covered wobbly prop and disappearing wheels for any type except one that needs a type rating.
MrAverage is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2024, 17:29
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,580
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Come on guys!
If you held a multi rating on an Aztec then obviously you have completed training on retractable undercarriage and variable pitch propellers.
It would have been valid on an Aztec for two years and then needed to be revalidated. If you wished to do the same on a Seminole or a Seneca then you would have needed the differences training on both of those as well. And it doesn't transfer to another Class i.e. SEP.
If you have a valid SEP and have flown VP prop and retractable on SEP in the past you are OK because it remains valid on SEP and TMG classes. FCL.710 Class and type ratings — variants
Whopity is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2024, 09:31
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: York
Age: 53
Posts: 797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I didn't think difference training applied to TMG's. No sign off required for tailwhel etc
Mickey Kaye is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2024, 12:35
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,580
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
The table in FCL.700 certainly creates that impression however reading the text:
(c) Notwithstanding the requirement in point (b), differences training for TMG, single-engine piston (SEP), single-engine turbine (SET) and multi-engine piston (MEP) aeroplanes may be conducted by an appropriately qualified instructor unless otherwise provided in the OSD.
and
(b), a further differences training or a proficiency check in that variant shall be completed, except for types or variants within the SEP and TMG class ratings.
I think the fact that because SEP and TMG are grouped together, they appear in this context even though there are no notified differences!
Whopity is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2024, 17:56
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bressuire
Posts: 823
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 9 Posts
(b), a further differences training or a proficiency check in that variant shall be completed, except for types or variants within the SEP and TMG class ratings.

I don't read that to mean that that the differences training on MEPL is not valid for SEPL (or TMG) as you say. Read; "except for.......": i.e. the differences training on a MEPL is valid for SEPL but not valid on other MEPL.
Fl1ingfrog is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2024, 16:52
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,580
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Differences training is not valid across classes or types except for SEP/TMG.
Whopity is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.