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SEP(LAND) flight instructor to an airline transition

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SEP(LAND) flight instructor to an airline transition

Old 26th Jan 2023, 15:46
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SEP(LAND) flight instructor to an airline transition

I am an EASA flight instructor teaching currently on a piper up north (EUROPE), I have around 2000TT. I am currently 30 and would like to apply to an airline.
Does anyone know if i am still a cadet when I apply to an airline, does any airline offer jobs to FIs?

I would really appricate if some can help me answer my questions!

Many thanks!

Last edited by Willtofly; 27th Jan 2023 at 08:49.
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 16:01
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I think you are just like the rest of the cadets mate, Europe is not the States!!! SEP hours don't matter here... hours only matter if you have them on a TYPE!
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 17:58
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The main question is, do you have all the other needed bits: ATPL theory, CPL with ME/IR and MCC? I suppose you do, but consider the fact that if you got all that several years ago, an airline may be less interested. Still, it's fair game, so apply and you will find out.
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 19:57
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Anyone with no multi crew time is a cadet. Once you have 500 hours multi crew then you can go for the TR/NTR jobs.
Unfortunately as an instructor every hour over 200 will potentially count against you.
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 21:54
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Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
Anyone with no multi crew time is a cadet. Once you have 500 hours multi crew then you can go for the TR/NTR jobs.
Unfortunately as an instructor every hour over 200 will potentially count against you.
Why would you have this opinion about the Flight Instructor pilots? What is it based on? Its a genuine question!
Ive recently finished the FI course, and Ive flown commercial (B744 and down), Private Ops (G650 and down), Bush flying (B1900 and down) for 25+ years, and Im seeing a lot of quality stuff that FIs can carry with them onwards. So, why do you say that? thanks for clarifying mate.
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 08:42
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Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
Unfortunately as an instructor every hour over 200 will potentially count against you.
i dont quite understand, what exactly do you mean by that?


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Old 27th Jan 2023, 08:47
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Originally Posted by Jhieminga View Post
the fact that if you got all that several years ago, an airline may be less interested. Still, it's fair game, so apply and you will find out.
Why are the airline less interested if I did that several years ago, completed my training in 2019 and did the FI straight after! Are flight instructors looked bad upon?
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 08:58
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They are not
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 09:19
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The main question is, do you have all the other needed bits: ATPL theory, CPL with ME/IR and MCC?
Correct, If you have all these up to date then you are as employable as any other. Take care not to listen to nonsense some of which is sadly repeated above.
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 10:43
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Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
Anyone with no multi crew time is a cadet. Once you have 500 hours multi crew then you can go for the TR/NTR jobs.
Unfortunately as an instructor every hour over 200 will potentially count against you.
Allow me to explain - I did say potentially.

It varies from airline to airline obviously, but anecdotally the big players who take a lot of cadets prefer people who are young and fresh out of training with minimal hours. Something about younger inexperienced people being easier to mould and the more single pilot hours you have, the harder it is to train you to fly in a multi crew environment.
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 11:19
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Originally Posted by Willtofly View Post
Does anyone know if i am still a cadet when I apply to an airline, does any airline offer jobs to FIs?
The question is: do you fullfill the requirements for any other position? If the answer is no, you are a cadet like all the others.

I don't have the impression FI's are considered "different" from any other cadet when applying for flying jobs. There is a lot to be learned, it's a different world. There are some advantages to FI experience, there are also disadvantages. I have seen FI's blast through training because they wanted to learn. And I have seen FI's retrained and retrained with no succes because they couldn't question themselves.

So apply for the cadet job, and go for it. It's your own mentality that will make you succeed.

Last edited by BraceBrace; 27th Jan 2023 at 11:30.
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 11:43
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Does anyone know if i am still a cadet when I apply to an airline, does any airline offer jobs to FIs?
The term cadet only applies to unqualified people attending a course of training provided by an airline or perhaps if an apprentice. The choice of the term 'Cadet' is that of an individual company, there is no formal use. The OP is already a fully qualified pilot and when employed by an airline will need only to undertake a course for the aircraft type to be flown and any other specific in house courses.

I would say that a future employer cares little whether you are an instructor or not.
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 17:19
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Unfortunately as an instructor every hour over 200 will potentially count against you.
What the poster means is their is a disdain amongst a few for FI's... no matter that they usually hold the same licences. It is called snobbery.
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 20:14
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Yeah, having actual flying experience is what counts when you applied for an Airline job in the US instead of euro airlines wanting cadets who are cheap to hire but no skills. Even the airlines themselves say the intergrated training is useless in producing the candidates they want.
You likely have better CRM skills as an instructor in real life situations so your qualifications should count more than a newly graduated gear-swinger with 98% average across their ATPL written guff
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 20:30
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Some training departments have had issues training some former instructors and other pilots with only single pilot ops experience due to bad habits they picked up over the years and were not suited to a multi-crew environment.

But it all comes down to attitude.
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 22:13
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But that boils down to attitude issues and not so much specific to single pilot or instructors… Unless Airlines start paying up and paying training for zero hour direct entry pilots, then they need to accept the fact that pilots come in all sizes and abilities, Also, alot of training departments are poisoned by the old-boys ex RAF/armed services and as such anybody who doesnt come from same background is immediately labeled.
So there must be reflection on both sides, the cocky CFI who thinks they are the bees bollox in their local pond, and the training department who rubbishes everybody unless they are a fast jet jock or zero hour graduate whom they can brainwash easily.

But if the OP is willing to admit he/she is on new territory and can dial in to the company compass, it’ll be good and the airlines will get a good asset they can use internally for line training etc..
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 22:16
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(Like I said, KSA was introduced to specifically address issues the airlines are having with new cadets… an Instructor has learned alot of that in real life instead of BS building of bridges over lava or making stick men out of spagetti on team building excercises)
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Old 28th Jan 2023, 11:34
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Willtofly

Firstly, best of luck! My advice is don’t listen to the naysayers and negative comments. Just be yourself and keep sending out those applications. I was in exactly the same situation as you so I’m slightly biased. In the end I got lucky. Right place, right time.

Here’s something to cheer you up. I was in the sim couple of years back and we were looking at UPRT. The trainer mentioned that pilots that still flew outside of the airline seemed to cope well with the recoveries. Seems the old stick and rudder skills counted for something. My point is you have a lot of time both general handling and analysing someone else flying in other words PF and PM in airline speak.

I’m not criticising cadets or MPL candidates but you have plenty of aviation experience. Don’t knock it although you’ll probably find a type rating course intense. I think we all did that came from an instructor background. Hope that helps.

BBK

Last edited by BBK; 30th Jan 2023 at 07:17.
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Old 29th Jan 2023, 21:38
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Originally Posted by enzino View Post
Some training departments have had issues training some former instructors and other pilots with only single pilot ops experience due to bad habits they picked up over the years and were not suited to a multi-crew environment.

But it all comes down to attitude.

Some training departments have had issues training some:

former instructors, former single seat fast jet pilots, former bush pilots, former biz jet pilots, former air taxi pilots, former military pilots, former cadets, former glider tug pilots, former SAR pilots, former pilots from other airlines etc etc.

Not all candidates are perfect. Not all training departments are perfect.

Do your best and keep at it.

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Old 30th Jan 2023, 07:31
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Originally Posted by 36050100 View Post
Some training departments have had issues training some:

former instructors, former single seat fast jet pilots, former bush pilots, former biz jet pilots, former air taxi pilots, former military pilots, former cadets, former glider tug pilots, former SAR pilots, former pilots from other airlines etc etc.

Not all candidates are perfect. Not all training departments are perfect.

Do your best and keep at it.
Now THIS is well said!
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