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Is this legal??

Old 24th Jun 2021, 05:32
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Is this legal??

Hi everyone,

I just received the schedule for my flight instructor training from an organization in central europe.
The schedule is 5 flying hours a day for 6 days with 1 day OFF in the middle.
Is this legal?
I have skimmed through part-fcl and part-ora but to be honest I haven't found anything related to the maximum training session per day, I might be wrong.
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Old 24th Jun 2021, 08:46
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It's probably legal, but that doesn't make it a good idea. In my view, doing more than two 1-hour flights a day (one lesson, perhaps the other one focused on skill enhancement) would be detrimental to your progress. Doesn't sound like a serious training syllabus to me, more like a quick way to relieve you of your money.
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Old 24th Jun 2021, 08:52
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If the course has been approved by the NAA then its legal however; I would advise you not to go there. I once saw a FI who had completed a course in about 1 week. The FI Course conducted properly will take 4-6 weeks, if you reduce the time you may have ticked the boxes but there is little chance of understanding what they mean. When you go for a job you may be asked to give a long brief, a short brief and perhaps demonstrate an air exercise, if you can't do it to the required standard they will show you the door.

Before each flight the FIC instructor will give the student a brief, then the student will give the FIC instructor a brief for his give back. For each hour in the air you will need a minimum of 2 on the ground and then there is the debrief. If each flight hour absorbs 3.5 hours then 5 flights a day will absorb 17.5 hours then you have to eat sleep etc, it just doesn't work! After the second flight you will learn nothing so most of the time will be wasted.

Last edited by Whopity; 24th Jun 2021 at 15:16.
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Old 24th Jun 2021, 13:10
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I spent close to three months on my FI course, which may appear to be overdoing it, but it didn't feel like it at the time. Four days a week, flying on two of those and long briefings and other ground-bound stuff on the other two. The minimum is 30 hours of flying and this course you're talking about appears to think that you can squeeze this into one week-long cross country (or something like that). If you want to do this properly, find another school!
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Old 24th Jun 2021, 16:06
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One week is ridiculous. Remember that the point to flying the exercise is to action and develop what you have thoroughly prepared, under instruction, in the classroom. If your understanding and ability to teach the lesson is not fully prepared, to a high standard, on the ground, then you are wasting your time going flying. 100 hours ground school and 30 hours flying plus your absorption time doesn't fit into one week. It is not just a matter of regurgitating CPL knowledge. There is much more to the required knowledge than the CPL provides and which the FIC instructor will need to teach. Teaching itself doesn't come easily to many and therefore a lot of time should be spent developing those skills.

There is not a fixed minimum period to the course. Some time ago the CAA and AOPA (FIC was overseen in those days by AOPA) became extremely concerned that some courses were completed in just two or three weeks. I don't remember that any applications were rejected because of this but the schools themselves were inspected thoroughly and brought to task. 4 - 6 weeks is surely the norm for a full time 5 day week attendance.

Completing in one week will save you a lot money both in accommodation and meals out. The instructor will go home rubbing his hands having only provided a small part of what you have paid for.
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Old 24th Jun 2021, 22:00
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The closest I came to any sort of "course" for any of my instructor ratings was to spend, I think, 2 days at Lasham in preparation for conversion of assistant to full cat glider instructor (I left the country before completion).

There are two essential and distinct requirements for being a good flight instructor:

1. You have to be proficient at flying
2. You must have an aptitude for teaching

I don't think any course, however long, is going to provide both. Neither can be learned by rote. If you already have both then the course length won't make any difference.

It seems far too easy for pilots who have done nothing except go through a ratings mill to become instructors who then turn the crank at the same mill. They have no experience to pass on except how to pass the test.




Last edited by EXDAC; 25th Jun 2021 at 02:26.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 12:57
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1. You have to be proficient at flying
2. You must have an aptitude for teaching
Having an aptitude is only a starting point, that aptitude needs to be developed into a skill before its of any use to you. I spent a number of years training people who had been selected for their apptitude, some didn't make it, some shouldn't have made it and one most unlikely student finished up as the leader of a World famous aerobatic team. Atttude is also very important. Ab-initio instruction does not require the range of experience that operational training might benefit from. The RAF used to take good students straight from training and recycle them as instructors without having any experience outside the training environment.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 19:04
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Having an aptitude is only a starting point, that aptitude needs to be developed into a skill before its of any use to you.
Totally agree. Some years ago I worked with a lady whose very talented daughter was invited onto the British national youth tennis team. Most parents were able to provide funds for additional coaching at Queens Club. She couldn't afford that. The senior coach at Queens suggested that she did a coaching qualifications to help her daughter. "But that's impossible" she said "my daughter can play me off the park with one hand tied behind her back". "Beating your student is not what it's all about" replied the Instructor. "Knowing what she must know and be able to teach that correctly, identifying her faults and knowing how to correct them. "Above all ensuring you will not fill her with nonsense and thus avoid causing irreversible damage, That is what an instructor is and why you should do it to help your daughter.

Talent and aptitude to teach is worthless without a good foundation and the necessary knowledge and, as whopity has said, the acquired skill.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 23:54
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Remember the old saying, "Sleep on it" before making a decision?

That is because the brain sort of settles all the stuff that came into the head during the day, into an understandable pile of goodies that have (most likely) been remembered.So, in your FI course, allow plenty of time to read over what the instructor said, and have plenty of sleep to remember it.

Being tired and ramming 5 hours a day of instruction into yourself for a week is not the way to approach this course. My last student I taught through the course was a total of 26 flights, being a combination of Gives, Readbacks and Revision, from 26 Jan to 6 April. Most flights were only 1.2 hrs, navs were longer.

There was a lot of time spent in the classroom too, as he refined and corrected his delivery of the important Long Briefs.

Last edited by Ascend Charlie; 27th Jun 2021 at 07:35.
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Old 11th Jul 2021, 04:46
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How do you know you will be flying 5 hours a day? Was the aircraft booked for 5 hours or did the instructor say you were going to fly for 5 hours a day as there is a big difference? There is nothing illegal about it and no way a booking time slot translates into actual flying. Where is that organization located?
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Old 11th Jul 2021, 17:48
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The fastest slight Instructor rating I did took 6 weeks and that was basically me almost full time with one student. An FI course in 1 week is a sick joke,
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Old 11th Jul 2021, 20:32
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Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever View Post
The fastest slight Instructor rating I did took 6 weeks and that was basically me almost full time with one student. An FI course in 1 week is a sick joke,
That's why I think the original post is misleading and practically impossible. I checked with almost every school in Eastern/Central Europe and every school required 4 weeks at least and it was like 8-10 hours a day with the majority being theory work. There's something missing from this story.
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Old 12th Jul 2021, 05:44
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“8-10 hours a day”. With breaks that would be a 10 - 12 hour day at least. The student then needs revision/exercise prep so a considerably longer day in reality. I’d be interested to know what they’re saying in their Teaching & Learning package about a student’s ability to learn with that sort of schedule.
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Old 12th Jul 2021, 06:27
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The most important parts of the FI course are:
1- Flying from the right seat
2- Teaching theory and concepts
The rest are review of what you've been doing in ATPL theory and mainly your PPL. All I'm saying is that the course can be done in 4 weeks intensively, or longer as some people have that ability to learn. And no, it's not 10 hours of new material; maybe 3-4 at best. I'm sure you know how an aircraft stalls, or how a wing generates lift. The original poster must be mistaken because from my experience with several aviation authorities that a one or two week FI course would be audited and definitely suspended. I don't want to go off on a tangent; my point is that insinuating that a school was going to make him complete an FI rating in one week is impossible.
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Old 12th Jul 2021, 12:07
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No, the most important aspect is not flying the aircraft from the RHS. Whilst an accurate demonstration is, naturally, desirable, what is fundamentally more important is comprehension on both sides of all aims and objectives. That embraces what to look for, listen for, what to say to and when throughout any lesson - long briefing, short or preflight, the flight itself AND how to critique/debrief effectively.

Your ascertation that there is “3-4” hours of new material is flawed. Last time I checked the 25hours of explicit “Teaching and Learning” or the core instructor course didn’t appear in the ATPL theory.

By basic mathematics the 125 ground + 30 hours flying should take 155 hours which is just under 4 weeks using a standard 37.5 hour working weeks and then add breaks, lunches and down time R&R etc. Time sure flies, doesn’t it?
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Old 12th Jul 2021, 13:40
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Duchess_Driver, your reply is spot on.
Regarding the theory, the flight school idea was that it should be all self taught, and this already raised my eyebrows.
On the practical training, the schedule I have been sent was like the one I mentioned in the first post, 5 flying hours a day for 6 days with 1 day OFF in the middle.
They also said not to worry about the examiner because it is an internal examiner, the HT of the school,
eyebrows raised again.

After waiting 2 weeks since writing to the authority for information I decided to call my former flight school HT(which unfortunately doesn't provide FI(A) courses), he was very sceptical and asked me how can they prove that they conducted all the theory and the briefing/de-briefing of each flight lesson?

I never accepted the offer, the price advantage does not justify this type of training, but sure it got me thinking about the legality of this situation.
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Old 12th Jul 2021, 13:51
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Simofly: Private message me the name of the school. Don't post it here because if what you're saying is wrong could make you legally liable. I'd like to check for myself what school is offering a one week FI course according to your original post.
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Old 12th Jul 2021, 14:41
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Whilst there is an “allowance” for some self study/progress tests, the majority of the ground-school should be instructor led.

Each exercise long brief and PFBs are usually “double tapped” (give/giveback) by both instructor and student.
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Old 12th Jul 2021, 18:08
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Honestly? Get your money back and go somewhere else.
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Old 12th Jul 2021, 19:50
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Still haven't received from Simofly the name of that imaginary school that offered him a one week FI course. I'm starting to read between the lines with the "Central Europe" insinuation.

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