MEIR Student applied wrong rudder on EFATO

[Broadlands]

After several practice EFATO drill carried out correctly, I must have been lulled into a relaxing a bit. This time, they pushed the wrong rudder hard and boy did it roll quickly. Alternative method of control used to regain control.
Just putting it out there so others don’t

[B2N2]

A’right I’ll bite.
What airplane and how was the simulation initiated and at what altitude?
What was your “alternative method”?
How was the student briefed?

[Whopity]

In 1991 a similar thing happend to a RAF Canberra at Wyton, killing the Station Commander and his crew.

[Fl1ingfrog]

A long standing practice of flight instruction has been that understanding can come later: "do as I say and things will never be wrong" and that has been successful but only until things do go wrong. "dead leg, dead engine - shove hard on the pedal that is giving the most resistance" has its parallel in the Biggs Mueller practice for disorientated spin recovery. The Beggs Mueller advice is applicable when the pilot becomes disorientated but not as a primary method as some will have it.

The primary recovery from yaw(spin) is to identify the direction of rotation (yaw) first and equally this is true in the prevention/recovery from yaw following an engine failure. So first identifying the yaw and removing the cause whilst preventing further yaw is first covered in upper airwork until it is fully understood and the yaw can be promptly identified by the pilot. Dead leg, dead engine is a 1st class back up technique but should not be the primary technique.

[ShyTorque]

Once had a helicopter student, just prior to his final handling test get cognitive failure during an engine off landing. Instead of raising the collective at about ten feet AGL, to arrest the descent and cushion the touchdown he pulled the cyclic hard back. I was already close by on the controls and rapidly took control but not quite soon enough to prevent the tail just touching the grass, resulting in minor damage. He’d flown a near perfect trip to that point, it was the last item on the sortie profile.

Taught me that any student, no matter how good he flies, can throw a no notice wobbler.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I can honestly say that the relatively few hours of training I gave for the initial multi rating produced more scary moments than all of the PPL,CPL, Night, Seaplane, IFR, Flight Instructor, Aerobatics, Formation, and glider license training I did combined.

EFATO is IMO the most dangerous exercise in the initial multi engine rating syllabus which is why I did all the training as an overshoot to a simulated runway that was set at 4000 ft AGL

[Broadlands]

Originally Posted by B2N2

A’right I’ll bite.
What airplane and how was the simulation initiated and at what altitude?
What was your “alternative method”?
How was the student briefed?

Da42, retarded left power lever (probably quicker than I had before) at 1000ft on climb out r/w 18 Wellesbourne. Alternative method- both power levers retarded to take away asymmetric and lower nose for airspeed.

Flew again today to repeat control and identification.

Yes, it was my mistake but never again!

[VH-MLE]

One of the golden rules of flight instruction is to expect the unexpected...

[parkfell]

Happened to me in a Seneca 3 at Machrihanish (Campbeltown) last century with a Cathay student.
The BAe SOP was a gentle retardation of the throttle to close, commencing at a minimum height of 400ft.
He ‘kicked’ the wrong way in the excitement. Despite me ‘guarding’ the rudder pedals a significant roll occurred. Immediately took control to resolve the situation. A very apologetic student.

A CAA pink AIC was current at the time following the Jetstream 31 fatal after a similar situation.
In their case, it was a live ‘V1 cut’ as part of
a 6 monthly currency [1179 boxed items].
The rules changed after that nasty.

[Tinstaafl]

In a Kingair with PT6 engines, 'dead leg, dead engine' may also lead to 'dead pilot'. There's a single point failure in the PT6 that causes an immediate torque runaway on the affected engine. Massive amount of power on the 'failed' engine causes the plane to yaw to the good engine. If all you use is 'dead leg, dead engine' before feathering, you will have have 'dead pilot' too.

[portsharbourflyer]

Tinstaafi, that is intriguing, I know accident stats are always skewed as you only tend to hear the accidents with fatal outcomes reported (ie: Engine faliures where they end up landing safely rarely get much notice in hte aviation press) , but everytime I read a king air incident there seems to be a reasonable number where the aircraft ends up rolled past 90 degrees with the obvious negative outcome. However it seems to tie up with the effect you mentioned there. I believe that there is no surprise that the Autralian Flying Doctor Service opted for PC12s rather than an equivalent sized twin turbo prop; as I believe the stats show a far better safety record with a SET than light twin turbines.

[drsd]

Originally Posted by Broadlands

Da42, retarded left power lever (probably quicker than I had before) at 1000ft on climb out r/w 18 Wellesbourne. Alternative method- both power levers retarded to take away asymmetric and lower nose for airspeed.

Flew again today to repeat control and identification.

Yes, it was my mistake but never again!

That recovery is not an alternative method. It is the primary method for recovery from Vmc, which your student induced by putting in wrong rudder.
I normally demonstrate just how fast things go to !!!! by performing a single engine stall recovery incorrectly (adding full power instead of reducing to 0% as well as no rudder input).

What you saw is what a real single engine loss of control is going to look like. It's quite a powerful demonstration.

If you don't already do this then ALWAYS guard the rudder so that you can stop an incorrect rudder input.