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Carbon monoxide

Old 27th Sep 2019, 22:32
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Carbon monoxide

So read the mail in Pilot about CO detectors and talk of the recent accident and one that was on offer for nearly £100.

I bought a couple of CO detectors with a digital readout, £6 each and fitted to aircraft.
They seem to work as the one often shows 30-40ppm when certain maneuvers cause fumes to enter cabin.
So i began to wonder what are the effects of this low level CO contamination.
I think the alarm function is set to go off at 300ppm.
Strangely it also detected a fuel leak in the cabin.
The only time i have really felt bad in aircraft was when the crankcase vent pipe outlet wasn't positioned to exit in the free stream.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 11:59
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Interesting topic.
Few months ago I was flying in a C172 and the ASA sticker detector went from orange to a darker orange then notoriously darker with some black spot. I opened the windows, returned to the airport and canceled the lesson.
I ended up having a strong unusual headache for few days even though I didn’t feel like I was exposed for too long.

Then I started digging more into this and coincidentally the news about CO on the Sala’s flight came in the newspaper.
In the US there is a key chain size detector with a loud warning alarm being sold for about 120 USD and the delivery was not matching my travel dates, so I ended up not buy it.
Basically I am also interested in having my own personal detector that is reliable taking advantage that you started the subject, if any of you can recommend me one, would be appreciated.
Regarding the side effects of tiny exposures, I am also curious.
That day I flew with some detection it didn’t feel bad but it took me few days to associate it with the unusual headache I had after that specific flight.

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Old 11th Dec 2019, 22:33
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I ended up buying a digital 90 euros CO detector, so far seems promising.


on a safe AC

Showing 36PPM on a suspected aircraft when cabin heat was on (turned off after the photo as the number kept increasing)

Last edited by Airgus; 30th Dec 2019 at 13:07.
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 09:38
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After few months of using a digital CO detector, so far I can say that most of the time you smell "engine" inside the cockpit, chances are you are getting few ppm of CO, usually at engine startup (some exhaust designs seals off after expansion due to gained temperature) it can be strong in some aircraft.
Another common high reading is when doing slow speed exercises, or transition from Hasell checks to stalls or practicing PFL. And of course when applying hot air to the cabin if the system is not correctly checked by the mechanics.
Now my habit is whenever we start the engine we keep a window, storm window open to freshen up the air for few minutes, the same when doing the slow exercises if you the airplane poh allows us to open the window in the air.
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 16:08
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Originally Posted by Airgus
I ended up buying a digital 90 euros CO detector, so far seems promising.

Why on earth have you put it there and created a large blind spot?
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 16:58
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Rarely, your comment is irrelevant to the topic. I am sharing experiences on CO detection that can help pilots and students in GA.
The device is half the size of a credit card and it is mounted on a place that someone's place a GoPro before and it was utilized for the picture.
The usual location is away from the outside cockpit view and even on that occasion it didn't affect the lookout, it's just the perspective of the picture.
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 17:54
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Well a CO detector shot up in value to alarm mode. We found an exhaust gasket blown. When fixed the CO value dropped way down to occasionally 30ppm.
I think there is a small gap in the floor which needs sealing. I think it's very worth while investment.
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Old 3rd Feb 2020, 20:36
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I have a nice unit from Otis Instruments, their OI-315 TOCSIN monitor that I bought some years ago from Sporty's for about $160 as I recall. I use it for testing experimental aircraft for CO.

20 or 30 PPM is getting high.

0 is ideal of course, but something under 10 is OK.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 10:11
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I ended up buying a digital 90 euros CO detector, so far seems promising.





Remember that in Europe, the installation of a CO detector ( even a “sticky on one” ) is considered a modification. To remain legal, you / maintenance organisation have to follow the guidelines laid down for its installation.

I’m not a licensed engineer but that installation on top of the glareshield does not look legit !!!

Slightly off topic but the compass deviation card also appears to be missing !!!

VFR
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 17:12
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Since when as any compass card shown any actual deviations. I have never come across a compass that was accurate. They need swinging at least every six months. I do them myself. We received an aircraft with a new compass that was 35 degrees off on some headings.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 18:44
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Remember that in Europe, the installation of a CO detector ( even a “sticky on one” ) is considered a modification. To remain legal, you / maintenance organisation have to follow the guidelines laid down for its installation
We've got 2 in the a/c, stuffed into map pockets, along with the PLB. I don't count that as 'installation' You can hear the alarm going off with a headset on. It's still better than those stick-on plastic things - does that count as installation?

TOO
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 19:54
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Originally Posted by TheOddOne
We've got 2 in the a/c, stuffed into map pockets, along with the PLB. I don't count that as 'installation' You can hear the alarm going off with a headset on. It's still better than those stick-on plastic things - does that count as installation?

TOO
I think you’ve already answered your own question.

You could always have a look at the EASA document regarding which constitutes the installation of CO detectors if in doubt.

It also wouldn’t surprise me that if EASA have taken the trouble to give guidelines around the correct procedure for the installation of “sticky on” CO detectors that they wouldn’t also have written something about the use of carry on PEDs.....

VFR
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 20:23
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Originally Posted by VFR-Seek and Destroy
I ended up buying a digital 90 euros CO detector, so far seems promising.





Remember that in Europe, the installation of a CO detector ( even a “sticky on one” ) is considered a modification. To remain legal, you / maintenance organisation have to follow the guidelines laid down for its installation.

I’m not a licensed engineer but that installation on top of the glareshield does not look legit !!!

Slightly off topic but the compass deviation card also appears to be missing !!!

VFR
Thanks for the info, not relevant in this case as it was only placed there for the picture.
the device is portable and it can be place anywhere or even inside the pocket.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 21:14
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Originally Posted by Airgus
Thanks for the info, not relevant in this case as it was only placed there for the picture.
the device is portable and it can be place anywhere or even inside the pocket.
Hi Airbus, it’s just when you said “it is mounted” that gave me the impression it was “installed”.

My main aim was just to highlight that there is actually official guidance from EASA about the correct procedures to follow for installing “sticky on” CO detectors and who is allowed to install them 🤷‍♂️.

And then I happened to notice that it looked as if the compass deviation / correction card was missing....

VFR

Last edited by VFR-Seek and Destroy; 10th Feb 2020 at 21:36.
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Old 12th Feb 2020, 07:32
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Thanks VFR, you are right about highlighting the EASA procedures I don't know if the school were I freelance will end up buying this CO detector or not.
So far I got this for me and it happened to be there for that picture.
There were some flights on C152 and Arrow that I ended up with a strange inner headache and my logic was to suspect small dosis of CO, which with this detector I managed to prove. The sticker one will give you strong warning but the electronic will inform you sooner.
So far the AC were inspected and fixed (small leaks) and since then those headaches are gone.
There must be more CO detectors at cheaper prices, so far this is working fine.
We always talk/read about big doses of CO but there's nothing about continuous contamination of small doses... I believe that in the long run it affects us.
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Old 2nd Mar 2020, 14:14
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SN-2020/003: Carbon Monoxide Contamination Minimisation & Detection in General Aviation Aircraft

interesting video

Last edited by Airgus; 12th Mar 2020 at 20:54.
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