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Night rating. 1 hour solo??

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Night rating. 1 hour solo??

Old 8th Feb 2019, 11:26
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I can't remember the official source but it's been that way for at least a couple of years or more. Another hiccup caused by EASA. Confirmed, if not officially, in an article in the AOPA magazine that just arrived this morning.......
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 11:29
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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It may be possible after licence has been applied for, but unsure what would happen if the application was rejected.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 12:49
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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The only thing that has changed under EASSA is that the PPL and Night ratings have to be seperate courses and hours can't be shared, but there is absolutely nothing to prevent them being conducted at the same time. The only proviso is that for a LAPL the Instrument Appreciation from the PPL syllabus must be completed prior to comencing the night rating. Both can be done and applied for at the same time. The CAA has no grounds to reject such an application. No regulation requires the PPL to be issued before the night rating can be started.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 10:56
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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The above may well be wrong, but I don't have the time to challenge the CAA on anything, nor the inclination to carry out night training with an ab initio student that might lead to one. I'm working eight days a week already!
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 15:01
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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There is absolutely nothing in the Regulation that requires the skill test to be passed or the licence to be issued before training towards an aeroplane night rating may be commenced. The sole pre-requisite, as Whopity has pointed out, is that the holder of a LAPL(A) shall have completed the basic instrument flight training in the PPL(A) course before commencing training for the night rating.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 19:39
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Mr A
If you can point me at where that article comes from, I'll be more than happy to add it to the long list of errors that I frequently point out to them. As it is, they take little notice of any such comments industry makes to them, but its still worth a try.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 10:07
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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AOPA UK magazine, February 2019.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 13:28
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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So it does not originate from Gatwick!
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 10:08
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Whopity, I wrote the article having checked all the facts with the CAA.

I'm sure they'll be overjoyed to receive yet another Whopity-gram, it's not as if they've got anything better to do...

MrAverage, did you obtain permission from the editor before copying and uploading that extract?

Anyway, the better news is that the EASA FS.TEC committee are happy with my proposals for the formal inclusion of night flying in LAPL and PPL courses and the proposals will now go to the EASA GA COM.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 14:45
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry, didn't realize it was a problem, I've deleted the post. I'm very new to attaching...........
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 15:06
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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EASA FS.TEC committee are happy with my proposals for the formal inclusion of night flying in LAPL and PPL courses and the proposals will now go to the EASA GA COM.
Now does that mean that they will include the 5 hours night within the 45 hour PPL course or that you can do them both together, which current regulation allows anyway? Presumably, one might see the outcome in the next 5 years;, we are still awaiting amendments from 2014.
As for the CAA having better things to do, I would have thought that getting it right, was one of their priorities. Only last week they pushed out a skywise that lead nowhere!
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 17:01
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Whopity, if you read the full article, all will be made clear. But here's the relevant extract:
ICAO requires only that a PPL applicant has successfully flown 40 hr total time, including 10 hr solo, before applying for a PPL. Indeed, for 'approved courses' such as the one I completed at Cranfield in 1968, the figure is only 35 hr total time. Whereas for the PPL(A), EASA requires 45 hr, of which at least 25 hr must be dual and at least 10 hr solo, which means that the other 10 hr may be either dual or solo. Similarly, for the LAPL(A), EASA requires 30 hr total training, of which 15 hr must be dual and 6 hr solo, with the remainder being either dual or solo.

However, unlike the requirements for helicopter night flying, there is nothing in the Night Rating requirements of FCL.810(a) which requires the Night Rating applicant to have already held a LAPL(A) or PPL(A). The aeroplane or TMG Night Rating course requires only 5 hr of night training, of which 3 hr must be dual; indeed at many times of year it is perfectly possible to complete a Night Rating in 2-3 nights.

So I will be proposing to our EASA committee that, provided the mandatory dual and supervised flight time stipulated for the LAPL(A) or PPL(A) has been completed under Day VFR, night flying training may also be conducted during the relevant course. This would give greater purpose to the 'spare' 10 hr (PPL) or 9 hr (LAPL) and would provide a significant cost saving for the student. Perhaps those very nice people at Gatwick might also review their licensing fees if such a combined course was accepted? For those who've never tried it, night flying can actually be rather pleasant as the air is often less turbulent, there are fewer other people about and provided you don't tell it that it's dark, the engine of an SEP/TMG is no more likely to fail than it would by day. Some of my more timid RAF QFI colleagues thought that night flying in the Bulldog was quite hazardous as forced landings would be nigh-on impossible. Which wasn't really much of an excuse given that flying down to a 200ft Decision Height in IMC never seemed to give them any such qualms!
LAPL trainees would need to meet the further prerequisite of PPL-level instrument flying experience, as has been said.
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