Cheap American PPL's A Waste Of Money?
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First of all, learning in the US IS cheaper...full stop. As far as checkouts go on return to the UK, I had an hour dual check, like I have every year, and they were happy to let me lose in the club aircraft. Its not just me though, I know many people who have returned from the US, and been given a club checkout and been set free.
There will be good and bad pilots everywhere. I consider myself a competent pilot, but by no means the best, and if a flying club here in the UK is satisfied with my performance, then all I can assume is that the standard of training in the US is at least as good as here in the UK.
As far as more highly qualified instructors charging more for instruction....that has been happening in the UK for years. If I want instrument training here, guess what I have to pay more (where as the FBO I use in California charge a fixed rate of $35 per hour, Insturment, PPL, Multi, spin training, aerobatics, etc).
I was flying around California last autumn, and there was another PPL over from the UK. He was hour building before going to OAT. First flight he flew into restricted airspace over San Onofre nuke power station and (luckily for him) ended up with a royal bollocking. After this he was so scared to fly in the US that he took an instructor with him for the entire duration of his trip (10 days). I'm not knocking this, it just brings home the point that the UK and US are indeed different, and someone who may be **** hot in an area they know, might not nescessarily be so hot somewhere else. This works both ways.
I think this US / UK arguement should end. Point of fact is that there's always going to be good / bad pilots and those in between, you can pay less for a quality licence in the states, you can receive quality training in the UK and US, the US is more GA friendly......
Cheers
EA
There will be good and bad pilots everywhere. I consider myself a competent pilot, but by no means the best, and if a flying club here in the UK is satisfied with my performance, then all I can assume is that the standard of training in the US is at least as good as here in the UK.
As far as more highly qualified instructors charging more for instruction....that has been happening in the UK for years. If I want instrument training here, guess what I have to pay more (where as the FBO I use in California charge a fixed rate of $35 per hour, Insturment, PPL, Multi, spin training, aerobatics, etc).
I was flying around California last autumn, and there was another PPL over from the UK. He was hour building before going to OAT. First flight he flew into restricted airspace over San Onofre nuke power station and (luckily for him) ended up with a royal bollocking. After this he was so scared to fly in the US that he took an instructor with him for the entire duration of his trip (10 days). I'm not knocking this, it just brings home the point that the UK and US are indeed different, and someone who may be **** hot in an area they know, might not nescessarily be so hot somewhere else. This works both ways.
I think this US / UK arguement should end. Point of fact is that there's always going to be good / bad pilots and those in between, you can pay less for a quality licence in the states, you can receive quality training in the UK and US, the US is more GA friendly......
Cheers
EA
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I think the key point to the original post that I made is that the pilots that are usualy of a below average standard when trying to get checked out in the U.K. are usualy the PPL for x dollars in x weeks as I think C.F.I stated.
It is these FTO's that I am frustrated with because of their apparent slap happy standards to ensure maximum turn out of students and ultimately max profit I suppose.
I have spoken with several Brits who were trained in Florida and one of them told me that a certain FTO rhyming with "almond Screach" aledgedly kept the remainder of your money with no refund if you were unable to complete in the allocated timescale.
I mean how can you train a half descent pilot with that kind of an attitude.
My time in Florida was spent flying from Daytona Beach, with it being a very busy GA/comercial airfield I initialy found the adaption to flying there quiet tough, the radio was fast and frantic and there was a very high concentration of aircraft in the sky's. However I hate to think how tough it could have been if my handling skills and Knowledge were not of the competent standard they were at.
The problems I have encountered are not differences in training or differences in RT/airspace but are more focused on lack of pilot skills and judgement brought about by poorly constructed training.
It is these FTO's that I am frustrated with because of their apparent slap happy standards to ensure maximum turn out of students and ultimately max profit I suppose.
I have spoken with several Brits who were trained in Florida and one of them told me that a certain FTO rhyming with "almond Screach" aledgedly kept the remainder of your money with no refund if you were unable to complete in the allocated timescale.
I mean how can you train a half descent pilot with that kind of an attitude.
My time in Florida was spent flying from Daytona Beach, with it being a very busy GA/comercial airfield I initialy found the adaption to flying there quiet tough, the radio was fast and frantic and there was a very high concentration of aircraft in the sky's. However I hate to think how tough it could have been if my handling skills and Knowledge were not of the competent standard they were at.
The problems I have encountered are not differences in training or differences in RT/airspace but are more focused on lack of pilot skills and judgement brought about by poorly constructed training.
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I would like to think I can comment on this because I did some hourbuilding in the states before my IMC/CPL/FI/IR courses and now I sometimes cringe/laugh when I think back because I was absolutely SHOCKING. I have also had to convert FAA PPls back to JAR perhaps with a little more sympathy.
Fact is new PPL's dont have enough experienceto be able to cope with a lay off or indeed a change of scenery. Put the two together and invariably you end up with a very mediocre performance.
I would argue that it would be a similar situation if you had moved a JAR ppler to say under the London TMA from somewhere like Blackpool. Unusual scenery with the differentish RT procedures , I suggest would also overload the new PPL.
Lets all remember they havn't got a lot of excess capacity when newly qualified, geography and whats coming through the headset will have a very serious impact on their performance.
I think we are confusing poor training with a poor performance in some cases here
Fact is new PPL's dont have enough experienceto be able to cope with a lay off or indeed a change of scenery. Put the two together and invariably you end up with a very mediocre performance.
I would argue that it would be a similar situation if you had moved a JAR ppler to say under the London TMA from somewhere like Blackpool. Unusual scenery with the differentish RT procedures , I suggest would also overload the new PPL.
Lets all remember they havn't got a lot of excess capacity when newly qualified, geography and whats coming through the headset will have a very serious impact on their performance.
I think we are confusing poor training with a poor performance in some cases here
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Jarjam,
I was a pupil at the above FTO, and I think that you've hit the nail on the head regarding that school.
Although I was allowed solo in the UK after approx. 1 hour check out, I think I needed about a further 10 hours training to feel comfortable with my own abilities. Some of that was with another US flight school with a very different attitude so I wouldn't like to think you were tarring everyone with the same brush.
However I've trespassed on someone else's forum - just a PPL expecting brickbats.
I was a pupil at the above FTO, and I think that you've hit the nail on the head regarding that school.
Although I was allowed solo in the UK after approx. 1 hour check out, I think I needed about a further 10 hours training to feel comfortable with my own abilities. Some of that was with another US flight school with a very different attitude so I wouldn't like to think you were tarring everyone with the same brush.
However I've trespassed on someone else's forum - just a PPL expecting brickbats.
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When I was a full time instructor I completed 3 UK PPL checkouts so they could fly our ( Canadian ) rental aircraft. One was a arrogant SOB sure he was going to show us poor colonials how real airman fly
. I had a lot of fun with him and when we were done there was not a dry spot on his shirt
. The second was an average pilot who did OK but even though I was ready to sign him off ,insisted on another hour to build his confidence. The third was young, maddly in love with everything aeronautical and had so much natural ability he could fly the box the aircraft came in
. My conclusion. It does not matter where you learned to fly. If you have a good instructor , a good work ethic/attitude and a modicum of ability you will be a good pilot .
. I had a lot of fun with him and when we were done there was not a dry spot on his shirt . The second was an average pilot who did OK but even though I was ready to sign him off ,insisted on another hour to build his confidence. The third was young, maddly in love with everything aeronautical and had so much natural ability he could fly the box the aircraft came in . My conclusion. It does not matter where you learned to fly. If you have a good instructor , a good work ethic/attitude and a modicum of ability you will be a good pilot .
Good to see some honest debate and constructive comment on this thread - not just xenophobic paranoia!
Once the situation regarding training and testing in the JAR member state of licence issue has been resolved, perhaps we'll see more people taking a 4-5 week holiday at a Mediterranean PPL school to take advantage of the VAT-free training and better weather rather than crossing the pond?
Once the situation regarding training and testing in the JAR member state of licence issue has been resolved, perhaps we'll see more people taking a 4-5 week holiday at a Mediterranean PPL school to take advantage of the VAT-free training and better weather rather than crossing the pond?
Last edited by BEagle; 28th Jun 2002 at 15:14.
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Personally I'd prefer it if people who decide to learn abroad ONLY learned for the local licence - this would help me understand what they do know and what they don't when they come to fly in the UK for the first time. It would help devise a standard UK conversion 'upgrade'.
I was shocked a year ago to find a new Florida JAR PPL (3.5 weeks) who claimed never to have ever heard of the term 'QNH'. (I do mean QNH, not QFE). I know they'll call it 'altimeter' in practice, but if you are on a JAR PPL course, how do you not know the term? I would have expected an FAA PPL not to know the term, but a JAA-PPL?
I was also VERY pleasantly surprised last year when a new SA PPL came for a rental checkout - my first experience of one. From talking to and visiting various clubs down there this year, I suspect they adopted the UK standard back in the 50s or 60s, and the schools still run very 'strict' training regimes and even go somewhat over the top (in my opinion) on type ratings once the licence is issued. (To be legal, each extra simple type needs a ground exam on it and a form to Pretoria)
I was shocked a year ago to find a new Florida JAR PPL (3.5 weeks) who claimed never to have ever heard of the term 'QNH'. (I do mean QNH, not QFE). I know they'll call it 'altimeter' in practice, but if you are on a JAR PPL course, how do you not know the term? I would have expected an FAA PPL not to know the term, but a JAA-PPL?
I was also VERY pleasantly surprised last year when a new SA PPL came for a rental checkout - my first experience of one. From talking to and visiting various clubs down there this year, I suspect they adopted the UK standard back in the 50s or 60s, and the schools still run very 'strict' training regimes and even go somewhat over the top (in my opinion) on type ratings once the licence is issued. (To be legal, each extra simple type needs a ground exam on it and a form to Pretoria)
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Irv:
What is so sacred about knowing all the JAA JAR garbage that you are stuck with?
If any pilot has been taught to fly any aircraft to a standard that makes him / her competent to fly same and think things out to come to a reasonable conclusion on how to handle any situation what difference does it make if he / she is not familiar with your phraseology?
At least the rest of the world knows when they are on final rather than finals. I never could figure out how anyone could be doing two approaches at the same time.
One of the irritating things I notice about a lot of pilots in England is their superior attitude with no identifiable demonstration of pilot skills to back up their self image.
For entertainment I like to watch the weekend warriors in their fighter pilot flying suits wrestle with their tailwheel mounts at North Weald.
But you have got me thinking that maybe these guys had the wrong altimiter setting and their problem with the runway is they don't know how high or low it is?
There that should liven up our weekend..
Cat Driver:
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
What is so sacred about knowing all the JAA JAR garbage that you are stuck with?
If any pilot has been taught to fly any aircraft to a standard that makes him / her competent to fly same and think things out to come to a reasonable conclusion on how to handle any situation what difference does it make if he / she is not familiar with your phraseology?
At least the rest of the world knows when they are on final rather than finals. I never could figure out how anyone could be doing two approaches at the same time.
One of the irritating things I notice about a lot of pilots in England is their superior attitude with no identifiable demonstration of pilot skills to back up their self image.
For entertainment I like to watch the weekend warriors in their fighter pilot flying suits wrestle with their tailwheel mounts at North Weald.
But you have got me thinking that maybe these guys had the wrong altimiter setting and their problem with the runway is they don't know how high or low it is?
There that should liven up our weekend..
Cat Driver:
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
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Chuck E.: "What is so sacred about knowing all the JAA JAR garbage that you are stuck with? "
hmmm ..wonder if there is "friendly-fire" here!
I don't believe I've ever tried to take someone who just wants mentoring for UK flying on a foreign licence and told them anything about JAR or the JAA. (unless they specifically want to convert licences)
When someone turns up with an FAA licence they need to understand the real practical differences about flying in the UK - eg: terms they will hear which might either be vital, or might confuse them whilst they are flying in the UK eg: QNH, Regional QNH, QFE, overhead joins, MATZ, LARS, FIS, RIS, possible differences in Class D rules, how to check pre-flight weather, notams, 'royal flights' red-arrows' etc - nothing to do with JAR or what anyone calls final approach, I just try to sort out real life practical 'confusions' and questions for the FAA pilot renting here.
Now what I can't understand (and I assume this is actually the sort of thing you meant) is why some instructors in the UK try and 'alter' the way a non-UK guy flies when he/she is perfectly safe as-is. Just one example; Most FAA guys will take a first bit of flap downwind, most UK pilots leave it til base - just the way it is generally taught here. Someone I know with a foreign licence was on a rental check in the UK last month and was told he MUST leave flap until base (ie: it's somehow WRONG to do it earlier). Attempts to get an explanation afterwards as to why this change was so vital failed miserably. Says more about the UK instructor than the potential renter...
ps:But I'm still don't understand how anyone can study for JAA licence, and have read the books for and sat the ground exams (and been debriefed on them) and somehow not ever have noticed or heard or taken in the term 'QNH'. I never got to ask, she disappeared off the scene after the ground briefing and never phoned up to book a flight!
hmmm ..wonder if there is "friendly-fire" here!
I don't believe I've ever tried to take someone who just wants mentoring for UK flying on a foreign licence and told them anything about JAR or the JAA. (unless they specifically want to convert licences)
When someone turns up with an FAA licence they need to understand the real practical differences about flying in the UK - eg: terms they will hear which might either be vital, or might confuse them whilst they are flying in the UK eg: QNH, Regional QNH, QFE, overhead joins, MATZ, LARS, FIS, RIS, possible differences in Class D rules, how to check pre-flight weather, notams, 'royal flights' red-arrows' etc - nothing to do with JAR or what anyone calls final approach, I just try to sort out real life practical 'confusions' and questions for the FAA pilot renting here.
Now what I can't understand (and I assume this is actually the sort of thing you meant) is why some instructors in the UK try and 'alter' the way a non-UK guy flies when he/she is perfectly safe as-is. Just one example; Most FAA guys will take a first bit of flap downwind, most UK pilots leave it til base - just the way it is generally taught here. Someone I know with a foreign licence was on a rental check in the UK last month and was told he MUST leave flap until base (ie: it's somehow WRONG to do it earlier). Attempts to get an explanation afterwards as to why this change was so vital failed miserably. Says more about the UK instructor than the potential renter...
ps:But I'm still don't understand how anyone can study for JAA licence, and have read the books for and sat the ground exams (and been debriefed on them) and somehow not ever have noticed or heard or taken in the term 'QNH'. I never got to ask, she disappeared off the scene after the ground briefing and never phoned up to book a flight!
Last edited by Irv; 29th Jun 2002 at 21:02.
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Hi again Irv:
Naw, I wasen't really trying to get you going, its just that aviation gets more and more difficult with each passing year. The differences from one country to another is quite perplexing when it would be so simple to have continunity in phrases and rules world wide.
For instance please explain to me why we have to struggle through all the weather METARS and TAFS written in code when it would be so much more simple to just have it printed in plain language?
You answer that and make me feel better.
As far as flight training is concerned there seems to be a world wide problem with neglecting to teach the simple basics of how to fly the things.
Cheers:
Cat Driver
................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Naw, I wasen't really trying to get you going, its just that aviation gets more and more difficult with each passing year. The differences from one country to another is quite perplexing when it would be so simple to have continunity in phrases and rules world wide.
For instance please explain to me why we have to struggle through all the weather METARS and TAFS written in code when it would be so much more simple to just have it printed in plain language?
You answer that and make me feel better.
As far as flight training is concerned there seems to be a world wide problem with neglecting to teach the simple basics of how to fly the things.
Cheers:
Cat Driver
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
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Well Irv:
I guess you haven't been anywhere if you are not aware of what the international language of aviation is.
When you get a better grip on aviation get back to me.
Oh, by the way do you perfer your weather in code rather than plain language??
Cat Driver:
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
I guess you haven't been anywhere if you are not aware of what the international language of aviation is.
When you get a better grip on aviation get back to me.
Oh, by the way do you perfer your weather in code rather than plain language??
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
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It seems to me we are talking about 2 different ducks.
If an overseas pilot wants to hire my aircraft, they need a validation. Equals no exam or test.
I will check them out to see if they can fly the bloody thing and find their way home so they can bring it back intact.
If someone wants to convert a licence, they do a conversion exam. They will be examined on the local national syllabus. If they get a question on QNH and can't answer it, it get marked as wrong. They can't say "ask me about Altimeters".
If they want a Rating, they do a exam as well as a flight test. And again they are tested to the local syllabus.
If someone does a JAR licence in the US, I would have thought hey get examined and tested on the JAR syllabus and not the FAAs. Something to do with complying with local Laws.
If an overseas pilot wants to hire my aircraft, they need a validation. Equals no exam or test.
I will check them out to see if they can fly the bloody thing and find their way home so they can bring it back intact.
If someone wants to convert a licence, they do a conversion exam. They will be examined on the local national syllabus. If they get a question on QNH and can't answer it, it get marked as wrong. They can't say "ask me about Altimeters".
If they want a Rating, they do a exam as well as a flight test. And again they are tested to the local syllabus.
If someone does a JAR licence in the US, I would have thought hey get examined and tested on the JAR syllabus and not the FAAs. Something to do with complying with local Laws.
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I guess what I am trying to get across is why do we have different rules and procedures in different parts of the world?
Would it not be reasonable to have everyone work through ICAO to ensure continituity and standardization around the world?
I note this is the instructors forum, are my questions to difficult for you to understand?
It may help some if you look beyond the area in which you each fly and try and grasp the concept that some of us must adapt to many, many different sets of rules and procerures due to our having to fly on a world wide basis.
Standardization world wide would in my opinion not only be desirable but would enhance safety. You do understand the word " safety " do you not? I note that almost everything we receive from our respective government agencys constantly bleat the " safety " mantra.
Then they go ahead and design their own set of rules to satisfy their own little bureaucratic world.
Flying instructors on the whole seem to be meek little robots indoctrinated in the Voodoo of their respective areas on the planet. Try and introduce something that will simplify things and all you get is protectionism of a beliefe system.
A very simple example of the stupidity prevelent in aviation is the slavish holding on to the code system of dissiminating aviation weather, common sense should dictate that plain language reporting of weather would be a far better method of providing such very important information.
Or does reading code give some of you a feeling of being special?
Cat Driver:
.........................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Would it not be reasonable to have everyone work through ICAO to ensure continituity and standardization around the world?
I note this is the instructors forum, are my questions to difficult for you to understand?
It may help some if you look beyond the area in which you each fly and try and grasp the concept that some of us must adapt to many, many different sets of rules and procerures due to our having to fly on a world wide basis.
Standardization world wide would in my opinion not only be desirable but would enhance safety. You do understand the word " safety " do you not? I note that almost everything we receive from our respective government agencys constantly bleat the " safety " mantra.
Then they go ahead and design their own set of rules to satisfy their own little bureaucratic world.
Flying instructors on the whole seem to be meek little robots indoctrinated in the Voodoo of their respective areas on the planet. Try and introduce something that will simplify things and all you get is protectionism of a beliefe system.
A very simple example of the stupidity prevelent in aviation is the slavish holding on to the code system of dissiminating aviation weather, common sense should dictate that plain language reporting of weather would be a far better method of providing such very important information.
Or does reading code give some of you a feeling of being special?
Cat Driver:
.........................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Moderator
Chuck, I agree that it would be easier if we had a common system throughout the world. I suppose JAR could have been an opportunity for that.... But like language and culture, aviation has developed differently in different countries; Australia is a classic example. The americans with their altimeters and non-metric units of measurement are a pain, but they aint going to change.
This is not Utopia, and there are always going to be procedural differences.
I am amazed that someone has a JAR PPL and doesn't know what QNH means, and it really makes you wonder if their instructor knew either, and IMHO gives a good case for making sure the instructors teaching these people should have some experience flying in the country they are licencing people for.
As for the weather, well, it is possible that not all meteorologists are fluent in English, or whichever plain language you prefer. (Babel fish, anyone?)
Is the wx code too difficult for you to understand?
This is not Utopia, and there are always going to be procedural differences.
I am amazed that someone has a JAR PPL and doesn't know what QNH means, and it really makes you wonder if their instructor knew either, and IMHO gives a good case for making sure the instructors teaching these people should have some experience flying in the country they are licencing people for.
As for the weather, well, it is possible that not all meteorologists are fluent in English, or whichever plain language you prefer. (Babel fish, anyone?)
Is the wx code too difficult for you to understand?
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Yes Chuck, it would be nice. More power to you if you can achieve it.
However.
Each National authority has to write it's rules so as to be legal in it's country. The American constitution gives the people the RIGHT to use the air. The Australian constitution, doesn't even mention it. So it becomes a PRIVILEGE. You jump through this hoop and we let you do that etc. I also believe (please prove me wrong) that the US has probably the most variations filed with ICAO. So, do we follow ICAO or the US? I'll be singing or shovelling coal before that gets resolved. Wait until we get the United States of Europe.
I suppose things get coded so computers have less bits to crunch. Why can't I have a PA 28-235 on my flight notification instead of a PA28B (hint - to many characters)
I just did a search of the ICAO website, they seem to know QNH.
4 Aerodrome Meteorological Observing Systems Study Group (AMOSSG) ICAO undertakes a thorough review of the aerodrome meteorological observing systems with the assistance by the AMOSSG. This task involves a review of requirements in Chapter 4 of Annex 3 concerning the observing and reporting of wind, visibility, runway visual range (RVR), present weather, cloud, temperature, dew-point temperature, QNH and supplementary information. In particular, the AMOSSG is expected to assist the ICAO Secretariat to assess the capability of automated weather systems in ...
There also appeared plenty of other abbreviations.
A search for 'Altimeter' brought 0 result.
However.
Each National authority has to write it's rules so as to be legal in it's country. The American constitution gives the people the RIGHT to use the air. The Australian constitution, doesn't even mention it. So it becomes a PRIVILEGE. You jump through this hoop and we let you do that etc. I also believe (please prove me wrong) that the US has probably the most variations filed with ICAO. So, do we follow ICAO or the US? I'll be singing or shovelling coal before that gets resolved. Wait until we get the United States of Europe.
I suppose things get coded so computers have less bits to crunch. Why can't I have a PA 28-235 on my flight notification instead of a PA28B (hint - to many characters)
I just did a search of the ICAO website, they seem to know QNH.
4 Aerodrome Meteorological Observing Systems Study Group (AMOSSG) ICAO undertakes a thorough review of the aerodrome meteorological observing systems with the assistance by the AMOSSG. This task involves a review of requirements in Chapter 4 of Annex 3 concerning the observing and reporting of wind, visibility, runway visual range (RVR), present weather, cloud, temperature, dew-point temperature, QNH and supplementary information. In particular, the AMOSSG is expected to assist the ICAO Secretariat to assess the capability of automated weather systems in ...
There also appeared plenty of other abbreviations.
A search for 'Altimeter' brought 0 result.
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Topic Review (Newest First)
Charlie Foxtrot India Chuck, I agree that it would be easier if we had a common system throughout the world. I suppose JAR could have been an opportunity for that....
Charlie Foxtrot India Chuck, I agree that it would be easier if we had a common system throughout the world. I suppose JAR could have been an opportunity for that....
However I expect that this is hardly likely to happen until the USA recognises the error of it's ways and decides to return to the commonwealth.
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Hi again everyone.
First off I learned to fly in North America so we are not familiar with the metric system and the term QNH is never used in airtraffic control.
Having said that I prefer the metric system and feel it should be used world wide. Also with regard to plain language weather, english is the international language of aviation. Therefore I am sure we can convince a computer to accept and send in that language. Local areas or countries that wish to convert to their own language are free to do so.
If we have english world wide in air traffic control what is the barrier to using that language in met. transmissions?
As to your question C.F.I., reading code is a pain period. However when I wrote the ALTP exams in the late fifties the exams were answered in writing rather than multiple choice. I got 98% in met.
I am willing to bet that in the past ten years I have read METAR's and TAF's in more countries than you have airports.
And yes they are different and can be confusing, especially when the persons on the other side of the desk doesen't understand english.
Cat Driver:
...................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
First off I learned to fly in North America so we are not familiar with the metric system and the term QNH is never used in airtraffic control.
Having said that I prefer the metric system and feel it should be used world wide. Also with regard to plain language weather, english is the international language of aviation. Therefore I am sure we can convince a computer to accept and send in that language. Local areas or countries that wish to convert to their own language are free to do so.
If we have english world wide in air traffic control what is the barrier to using that language in met. transmissions?
As to your question C.F.I., reading code is a pain period. However when I wrote the ALTP exams in the late fifties the exams were answered in writing rather than multiple choice. I got 98% in met.
I am willing to bet that in the past ten years I have read METAR's and TAF's in more countries than you have airports.
And yes they are different and can be confusing, especially when the persons on the other side of the desk doesen't understand english.
Cat Driver:
...................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 38
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uk pilots
Flying a cessna 172 is flying regardless of location and books.In west USA you have the option of real mountain flying,very busy airspace,night,ifr you name it-how can a pilot that never had the freedom to fly where and when he wants think he is better?How can a low time pilot compare to a high time?It is true that the instuctors here could be very low time and low quality but the license is considered a license to learn,get more training,find a better cfi,fly other planes at a lower cost than europe.I FLEW WITH BRITISH AND OTHER PILOTS,SAYING THEY ARE BETTER IS NOT TRUE.Flying thru class b and mountains with a hi time german pilot-transponder failed,flaps got stuck,radio weak-u had to see his face,he was scared and lost.Not proud of all the crappy equipment,the more u ve seen u ll have a better chance even if your written tests r not that great,and yeh-some examiners here are corrupt.