Flying Instructors & Examiners A place for instructors to communicate with one another because some of them get a bit tired of the attitude that instructing is the lowest form of aviation, as seems to prevail on some of the other forums!

Trial lesson.

Old 1st Jan 2016, 21:22
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Trial lesson.

Does this notion still exist within the plethora of rules about qualifying for a UK PPL?
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Old 2nd Jan 2016, 01:25
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Yes. Nobody has come up with a better name for it yet.

Most are really just 'Pleasure Flights' in disguise.


MJ
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Old 2nd Jan 2016, 06:20
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You mean the Air Experience flight, Exercise 3.

When did we start to call it a Trial Lesson?

I know when some clever dick thought let's sell a Trial flight for one hour, but only actually fly 20 minutes and only pay the instructor also for 20 minutes work!
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Old 2nd Jan 2016, 08:48
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Yes, "Trial lesson" is a marketing term and is actually either Ex3 as BeB says or Ex4(i) Effect of controls part 1. How much of it is actually carried out as a proper lesson very much depends on what the "student" is aiming at (also how much interest the instructor takes in that).
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Old 2nd Jan 2016, 09:04
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Yes. Nobody has come up with a better name for it yet.
In the case of 15/20 minute lessons, I think "Ripp Off" would fit the bill, as well as being almost impossible for the instructor to manage.

within the plethora of rules about qualifying for a UK PPL?
This raises some interesting points as training for a PPL can only be conducted at an ATO/RF however; legally, an FI could give a lesson, but it may be that it would no longer qualify towards the issue of a licence if it was outside such an organisation.

Last edited by Whopity; 2nd Jan 2016 at 09:41.
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Old 2nd Jan 2016, 10:53
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And now an Introductory Flight can be given by someone without an FI rating. Doesn't count towards PPL though.
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Old 2nd Jan 2016, 12:19
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And now an Introductory Flight can be given by someone without an FI rating
There are of course considerable restraints applicable to this activity, including; not for profit; it is a passenger flight, not a lesson and may not necessarily involve sitting in a pilot seat.
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Old 2nd Jan 2016, 13:24
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There are of course considerable restraints applicable to this activity, including; not for profit; it is a passenger flight, not a lesson and may not necessarily involve sitting in a pilot seat.
I've seen, unfortunately unable to make a copy or photo, a letter from the CAA saying that during introductory flights 'guests' are allowed to control the aircraft, as long as it's not below 500ft.
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Old 2nd Jan 2016, 13:39
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Its not really up to the CAA to make such comments, its either legal or its not!
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Old 5th Jan 2016, 11:51
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Done properly it is a useful exercise, just the name is a bit off-putting. The French call it "Bapteme de l'air" Much more inviting.
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Old 5th Jan 2016, 12:20
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I had one a couple of years ago (literally)

It called "Tasting the flight" done by a PPL with experience on air competition and I flew from the left. I volunteered to buy some more flights and having them count towards a PPL course but they said I have to take the medical first.

A person who runs an aviation magazine told me he would steer clear of them.
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Old 5th Jan 2016, 14:45
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You do not need a medical for dual training (but you do to fly solo). Training towards a licence can be carried out by a PPL holder, but only if he/she holds a valid Flight Instructor Certificate.

I would suggest that you check the validity of the advice you are receiving!
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Old 5th Jan 2016, 19:49
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done by a PPL with experience on air competition and I flew from the left.
I wonder what experience this PPL had of flying from the right hand seat! Most FI students find that it takes them quite a large part of the 30 hour course to adapt to flying from the right hand seat. If anything had gone wrong the PPL could have been in breach of articles 137/138
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Old 5th Jan 2016, 20:05
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Originally Posted by mykul10 View Post
You do not need a medical for dual training (but you do to fly solo). Training towards a licence can be carried out by a PPL holder, but only if he/she holds a valid Flight Instructor Certificate.

I would suggest that you check the validity of the advice you are receiving!
As I said before the guy on the RHS was just a PPL and (I did not mention it I asked to fly with a Flight Instructor but none was available). There was a thread (on Private flight forum) about my case I started which had some interesting comments.

A medical is always useful and a relatively minor cost in relation to not able to perform the drills required in PPL.

I wonder what experience this PPL had of flying from the right hand seat! Most FI students find that it takes them quite a large part of the 30 hour course to adapt to flying from the right hand seat. If anything had gone wrong the PPL could have been in breach of articles 137/138
He said he was legally allowed to fly from the right seat and I think he did often. He was doing all the "experience flights" on behalf of his club.
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Old 5th Jan 2016, 22:28
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He said he was legally allowed to fly from the right seat
There is nothing in the law that says which seat a pilot must fly from however; the left hand seat in an aeroplane is traditionally the pilot seat which is why instruments and controls are designed to be accessable from that seat. As he is the only pilot, and you are a passenger, not a student, the pilot has certain responsibilities towards you, the aeroplane and third parties. Should he for any reason not be able to fulfil those responsibilities, then a court could question his judgement and consider him negligent.

In order to conduct these flights, the "approved organisation" should have an operations manual, and that should state quite clearly which seat the pilot will sit in!

An organisation intending to offer such flights as regular business activity is not considered to meet the condition of marginal activity. Also, flights organised with the sole intent to generate income for the organisation are not considered to be a marginal activity.
The CAA recommends that organisations conducting introductory flights ensure that the guidance is adopted within the organisation’s Operations Manual, or equivalent.
I asked to fly with a Flight Instructor but none was available
In which case I assuime they reduced the cost as they did not have to pay the pilot!

Last edited by Whopity; 5th Jan 2016 at 22:39.
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Old 29th Jan 2016, 13:37
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Some excellent responses here folks!

The reason I initiated this thread was to find out 'the latest' on this issue, and I see that little or nothing has changed since the early 1980s when I learned to fly.

Howto
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