possible career change as a woman at age 34

[Pull what]

At a West Midlands airport a couple of years ago the most experienced instructor at a flying school (with over 4000 hours, mostly instructional) taxied into tbe back of a helicopter at the pumps doing causing around a 100,00 pounds worth of damage. The student who was with him tried to discourage him from taxing with a misted screen but he carried on.

So great SA, TEM, ADM and Airmanship eh?

I know many instructors with many thousands of hours who should not even hold a pilots licence and three of them are flight examiners!

[Reverserbucket]

The key to good instruction in my opinion, is an ability to teach confidently.


There is not enough emphasis on teaching and learning principals during instructor training in my experience.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Originally Posted by Reverserbucket

The key to good instruction in my opinion, is an ability to teach confidently.


There is not enough emphasis on teaching and learning principals during instructor training in my experience.

An interesting perspective.

I am variously a CRI(SPA), a former British Canoe Union Trainee Senior Instructor, a teaching black belt in Jiu Jitsu, and a qualified university lecturer with a postgraduate certificate in teaching and learning in further and higher education.

In my opinion, the material on teaching and learning styles and approaches I was provided for my CRI course - which I believe is about the same as the FI course in this respect - is vastly superior to anything I got in every other instructors course I've ever done. If it can be improved, as doubtless it can, it's still ahead of where everybody else is.

G

[Pull what]

1.The key to good instruction in my opinion, is an ability to teach confidently.

2.There is not enough emphasis on teaching and learning principals during instructor training in my experience.

I know that first comment (1) was well meant but with respect you are a million miles away from from the facts, in my opinion, as an instructor who teaches FI courses.

There isnt just one key to good instruction and there are many key requisites to being a good instructor.

Fiirst of all the definition of 'good'. There are competent instructors and there are good instructors. Most who hold the certificate are competent because they are qualified and supposedlly can get a student through a PPL course to licence, that however doesnt make them good instructors by any means. A good instructor teaches beyond a syllabus and holds the certificate because his first passion is teaching, not just because he wants to be an airline pilot, or wants to keep his hand in or its the only aviation job he can get. Vocational instructors who are passionate about teaching and helping people are very few and far bewteen, Ive come across two in nearly 25,000 hours of flying.

(1) Teaching confidently, many poor instructors teach confidently. In one school I was in recently I heard the Head of Training say to a student," you dont need to consider metars when obtaining an aviation wx forecast". I later took one of his students over who had had two lessons with him and when I said to the student at the end of the flight," Can you now show me how to get out of the aircraft" he did not know that the PA 28 had two door releases! He had also been sent out to do a walk around check without ever being shown how to do one, when he queried it he was told to use his checklist! All minor things you might say but those minor things are the difference between a competent instructor and a good instructor.

This instructor is a PPL examiner, a multi engine instructor an IR instructor and a commercial instructor he is often described as the best and most experienced instructor on tbe airfield. He teaches to an appalingly low standard but very confidently.

(2) How right you are. This is an area that skipped over by many FI instructors, in fact all they will do is enough to get a candidate through the test and this is one of the reasons why standards are so low.

[Pull what]

I agree the concepts of SA are important but before you can apply them you have to be taught the basic principals of weather, navigation, engine management etc etc. That is what a PPL course is for.

The best pilots or instructors to teach SA are those who have had the most wide ranging experience in flying and they wont be instructors with 300 hours experience mostly gained in the local area and circuit in an SE aircraft!

[Parson]

I've had lots of different instructors over the years covering many aspects of flying. I'd be happy to fly with any again except for two....

1. A part time instructor who had an 'obsession' with general handling. During club checkouts he just wanted to throw the a/craft all over the place and recover, doing quite a bit of the flying himself. He WAS trying to teach me an important element of GH but frankly left me feeling sick every time I flew with him.

2. A (highly recommended) full time career instructor teaching me aerobatics. Treated me like a naughty child from the word go even though I was new to type and new to aerobatics. Suffice to say he lost my business.

I'm not qualified to comment on styles of teaching/instruction etc. - there are many variations and personalities. But from a purely business point of view an instructor should keep in mind that he/she wants the student to enjoy the experience come back for more. It is after all costing them a not inconsiderable amount of money.

[Parson]

Pull What - disagree. SA is something you pick up from day one and build and develop through your flying career, wherever that may take you.

Having 'only' 300 hrs and 'only' flown in the local area does not mean that an FI cannot be an excellent PPL instructor.

[Pull what]

Pull What - disagree. SA is something you pick up from day one and build and develop through your flying career, wherever that may take you.

But you are contradicting yourself! As you say, you develop it through your fllying career so therefore those with the most varied lengthy flying carreers are best placed to teach SA

Having 'only' 300 hrs and 'only' flown in the local area does not mean that an FI cannot be an excellent PPL instructor.

Depends how your define excellent and whom is defining it. Ive known students fly with awful instructors and class them as excellent. If you see PPL instruction as a very simple task that anyone can excel at after a few 100 hours you are obviously are correct. I dont share that view.

Experience is marked by thousands of hours in flying but only by those who have such experience and know the difference!

[Parson]

Not sure how I am contradicting myself....I've never pitched up to a lesson to be told 'today we are going to learn Situational Awareness..'. The level of SA needed, say in a basic VFR circuit is quite different from that needed flying a non-precision SE approach in an MEP, single pilot in IMC and naturally you would expect an instructor teaching the latter to be more experienced.

BUT hours alone are not an indication of excellence. One of the 'poor' instructors I mentioned above had many thousands of hours.

All other things being equal, more hours = more experience = better instructor, but that is not always the case. Hence my point that having 300 hrs. does not mean a ppl instructor cannot give very good instruction.

I was taught by an hour builder and you're right, I didn't know any better. But, looking back he was one of the better instructors I've had. He had a genuine interest in my progression, explained/demonstrated things clearly and took my training seriously. (Interestingly he went on to airline flying, didn't like it and returned to full time instructing).

The PPL is often described as a 'licence to learn' and that really is true. I'm sure we can all look back and think 'I wasn't taught such and such very well' but unless we are all taught by 20,000 hour sky gods, nothing will be perfect.

You keep learning (or should) throughout your career - I've picked up many things reading articles by the likes of John Farley & Brian Lecomber and tried them out and incorporated them into my flying.

[Pull what]

May I ask, are you a flying instructor?

Not sure how I am contradicting myself.

Ok well whom do you think will teach you more about situational awareness if they both had equal instructional abilities, the guy with 300 hours with limited experince or the guy with 13000 hours who has flown all over Europe in a multitude of types, flown at many different airfields and schools.

I've never pitched up to a lesson to be told 'today we are going to learn Situational Awareness.

With respect perhaps thats because youve never flown with a good instructor, only competent instructors! Unless of course they taught you in the air(the hallmark of poor instruction)

The PPL is often described as a 'licence to learn' and that really is true. I'm sure we can all look back and think 'I wasn't taught such and such very well' but unless we are all taught by 20,000 hour sky gods, nothing will be perfect.

All licences and qualifications are licences to learn. Flying is an on going learning experience for those who live long enough to realise that limitation.

OK so with your argument then an instructor must be at his best at 300 hours and progressively becomes worse up to 20000 hours upon where he becomes a sky god!

The level of SA needed, say in a basic VFR circuit is quite different from that needed flying a non-precision SE approach in an MEP, single pilot in IMC

That shows a misunderstanding of what SA is. Every situation is different but the level of SA needed in both situations you describe could be markedly different for a variety of reasons, minute by minute or day by day.

A student was recently sent to Andresfield on a cross country and en route she had a radio failure, which she dealt with good SA based on the knowledge given to her by her instructor. However she had a perfectly servicable box(no 2) which she didnt know existed and didnt know how to use. Exercise 1 is Aircraft Famil & Ex 18 is Navigation, what happened on the exercises in bewteen or did her Sky God have poor instructional SA?

You keep learning (or should) throughout your career - I've picked up many things reading articles by the likes of John Farley & Brian Lecomber and tried them out and incorporated them into my flying.

Brian Lecomber read and learned much from Neil Williams and Neil flew into a mountain killing himself and his wife. I hope you will learn something from that especially as it was caused by lack of SA.

Of course one can learn from high profile pilots but some of the best lessons Ive learned about flying instruction have been from the poorest of instructors and one of those lessons was to never ever show such poor duty of care.

[Parson]

You seem to be failing to grasp some of my points but no matter.

Ok, lets assume you are correct. Take a 25 year old who has scrimped and saved to get a CPL and has say 150 hours. He (or she) has no desire to sit at the pointy end of a jet and wants to become a career flying instructor. What, in your utopian world of flying instruction, should he do next?

[Pull what]

Ok, lets assume you are correct. Take a 25 year old who has scrimped and saved to get a CPL and has say 150 hours. He (or she) has no desire to sit at the pointy end of a jet and wants to become a career flying instructor. What, in your utopian world of flying instruction, should he do next?

Give thanks to the Lord that he wasnt born in Syria

[Parson]

Didn't think you would have a sensible answer......

[Pull what]

A sensible question always deserves a sensible answer

[Parson]

As it was a reasonable question to ask, how about a sensible answer then?

[Pull what]

Well the obvious thing would be to obtain an instructor qualification which at least is taking the thread back on subject

[Parson]

Ok so he now has his instructor ticket and say 180 hours. What then?

[Pull what]

Well you have a go at that one. A young guy has just got his instructors ticket, what do you think he does next?

May I ask, are you a flying instructor?

I asked you earlier this question, which sounds quite sensible to me, but you still havnt replied-why is that?

[Parson]

Well in my book, he starts to instruct - simple.

I'm more interested in how it would work taking your viewpoint though, as even at 300 hours, he is not sufficiently experienced to instruct. So what DOES he do?

Sorry, I missed that - yes.

[Pull what]

as even at 300 hours, he is not sufficiently experienced to instruct. So what DOES he do?

Where did I say that?