RAF ATC instructors & the Vigilant T1
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Thread Starter
RAF ATC instructors & the Vigilant T1
Could somebody in the know satisfy my curiosity about something.
- What are the general flying standard requirements of VGS Vigilant instructors?
- What's the current taught / published stall recovery for the Vigilant T1?
Purely because I flew with one of said instructors (I was instructing them) recently for an SEP checkout and there were aspects of their flying which surprised me a little. I'd like to understand if it was them, or the environment they're from.
G
- What are the general flying standard requirements of VGS Vigilant instructors?
- What's the current taught / published stall recovery for the Vigilant T1?
Purely because I flew with one of said instructors (I was instructing them) recently for an SEP checkout and there were aspects of their flying which surprised me a little. I'd like to understand if it was them, or the environment they're from.
G
Moderator
Thread Starter
Stuff!
Would prefer to get an idea, before prejudicing the conversation too much.
But: picking up a dropped wing with aileron and using partial power in the stall recovery was one thing.
G
Would prefer to get an idea, before prejudicing the conversation too much.
But: picking up a dropped wing with aileron and using partial power in the stall recovery was one thing.
G
In brief, the Vigilant SSR teaching is:
i. Move control column centrally forward to select the recovery attitude.
ii. Wait for 50 kt.
iii. Level wings.
iv. Select normal gliding attitude.
There is (or should be) no use of partial power.
i. Move control column centrally forward to select the recovery attitude.
ii. Wait for 50 kt.
iii. Level wings.
iv. Select normal gliding attitude.
There is (or should be) no use of partial power.
Educated Hillbilly
G,
Remember even the best of us in a new situation can do silly stuff because of the pressure of a situation.
Although a SEP club check is a relatively relaxed affair as checks in flying are concerned, there still is the element of flying something new with some one new.
As an instructor it is very easy to demonstrate stuff perfectly when you are controlling the pace of the lesson. So for an instructor switching back to being the student there is still the potential to perform less than 100%.
It depends if he/she recognised at the time if that was incorrect action.
I know during sim sessions on the heavier stuff, I have often found myself often making the same mistakes that my students make on the light stuff. As a moderate houred GA instructor these are mistakes I shouldn't make but sometimes the pressure of the situation can make you do stuff that makes you look as though you have never flown before.
Remember even the best of us in a new situation can do silly stuff because of the pressure of a situation.
Although a SEP club check is a relatively relaxed affair as checks in flying are concerned, there still is the element of flying something new with some one new.
As an instructor it is very easy to demonstrate stuff perfectly when you are controlling the pace of the lesson. So for an instructor switching back to being the student there is still the potential to perform less than 100%.
It depends if he/she recognised at the time if that was incorrect action.
I know during sim sessions on the heavier stuff, I have often found myself often making the same mistakes that my students make on the light stuff. As a moderate houred GA instructor these are mistakes I shouldn't make but sometimes the pressure of the situation can make you do stuff that makes you look as though you have never flown before.
Moderator
Thread Starter
Absolutely - as I said, what was interested in working out was whether this pilot was representative of a breed, or just somebody good having a bad day.
It is easier and better, in my opinion, to train somebody if you know where they're starting from.
Also preferable to know whether I should be saying "you need to do it like this", or "whilst I know you do it like this on the Vigilant, you need to do it like this on this aircraft".
G
It is easier and better, in my opinion, to train somebody if you know where they're starting from.
Also preferable to know whether I should be saying "you need to do it like this", or "whilst I know you do it like this on the Vigilant, you need to do it like this on this aircraft".
G
About a year ago I did refresher training for a former AFI who had spent the last 20 years teaching on the Vigilant. As a RAF trained instructor they work to a very standardised regeme, it is different to the many methods you will see in the civil world. Rather than let the candidate struggle trying to remember back to SEP or even Group A days, which will always be clouded by their more recent experience, simply demonstrate what you would expect to see, then let them do it. In most cases they will get it right first time.
I recall a former A Cat Britannia Capt who came to the C130 as a co-pilot. During a post flight debrief from a rather young inexperienced Herc Capt, he was told that he displayed no Captaincy potential at all!
I recall a former A Cat Britannia Capt who came to the C130 as a co-pilot. During a post flight debrief from a rather young inexperienced Herc Capt, he was told that he displayed no Captaincy potential at all!
Genghis the Engineer, a little Googling reveals that the Air Cadet trainee guide for the Vigilant Self-Launching Motor Glider includes the same 'Standard Stall Recovery' (as described earlier) as does the guide for the Viking (ASK-21) sailplane.
'Picking up a wing with aileron' does not feature in their 'Standard Stall Recovery' technique - moving the control column centrally forward to the recovery attitude emphasises 'without any aileron being applied' and rolling wings level comes only is after a 'safe flying speed' of 50 KIAS has been achieved.
Emphasis appears to be (rightly) on operation of the Vigilant as a glider, except when the engine is needed for gaining altitude or for flying the level part of a circuit - all approaches appear to be flown as glide approaches, with corrections made by use of spoiler rather than by power adjustment.
'Picking up a wing with aileron' does not feature in their 'Standard Stall Recovery' technique - moving the control column centrally forward to the recovery attitude emphasises 'without any aileron being applied' and rolling wings level comes only is after a 'safe flying speed' of 50 KIAS has been achieved.
Emphasis appears to be (rightly) on operation of the Vigilant as a glider, except when the engine is needed for gaining altitude or for flying the level part of a circuit - all approaches appear to be flown as glide approaches, with corrections made by use of spoiler rather than by power adjustment.
