training past TBO etc

[Yorkshireaviator]

Hi,
Can any one give a definitive answer to a question I've had nagging me for some time. Whereas it is clear you cannot carry out ab initio training in an aircraft that is past TBO+20% or out of calendar life, the situation regarding biennial flights and non ab-initio furtherance/conversion training seems more obscure. The way I read it the same rules do not apply, although permit aircraft are not allowed unless the trainee is a shareholder.
Am I right, or has ANY form of training got to be within TBO and calendar life? I am a CRI undertaking microlight to SSEA conversions and differences training plus biennials. Sources of info would be appreciated. CAP804 is pretty ambiguous (or am I just being thick!)

[MrAverage]

I don't have time to look it up but it's in an IN. You need to search for that (and sign up to receive them in future to stand any chance of keeping up with changes).

[Whopity]

Whereas it is clear you cannot carry out ab initio training in an aircraft that is past TBO+20% or out of calendar life, the situation regarding biennial flights and non ab-initio furtherance/conversion training seems more obscure.

In the past we had public and private cats, they disappeared and how you use the aircraft is based upon its maintenance. If money changes hands for the use of the aircraft then it must meet public transport maintenance standards so, if the engine is outside TBO then it cannot be leased and may only be used for private flights by the owner(s).

AIC: W 001/2011 sets out what you can do in an aircraft maintained to Private Standards.

There is no such thing as a biennial in Europe.

[JUST-local]

We used to have three types of C of A in the UK. Private, Aerial work and Public Transport.

Public transport aircraft are required to be in a controlled environment and all the inspections/work completed by a Part 145 organisation. This would only be required if used on an AOC etc.

This is not the case for Aerial work (rental or flight instruction in this case) they must however be commercially maintained, the last inspection must have been completed by an approved organisation, Part F, Part 145 or a licensed aircraft engineer.

The engine must be within TBO or +20% if GR24 is applied. All the smaller bits also need to be within hours or calendar, the extent of this seems to vary a little and is decided between operator, engineer and CAMO/Part G doing the airworthiness review.

If you have had tbo + 20% out of an engine you have had your moneys worth, who said flying would be cheap

[Big Pistons Forever]

Originally Posted by JUST-local

If you have had tbo + 20% out of an engine you have had your moneys worth, who said flying would be cheap

The flying school I do a bit of part time teaching at has approval to run the engines in the C 172 S to 3500 hrs (Lycoming TBO is 2000 hrs). To date every engine has made it to 3500 hrs with no issues.

TBO + 20 % hard limit for a commercially maintained engine used regularly, reflects a regulator that hasn't a clue

[JUST-local]

This is also possible in the UK, I have seen 0-320's allowed to run 3000 hours commercially provided they are doing the hours.

There is also a Lycoming SB that allows more than the recommended TBO provided the monthly hours a certain number and consistent.