Am I legal?

[memories of px]

just paid £65 to get my licence converted to easa, the section in the scheme of charges says -Unlimited validity National UK Private Pilot’s Licence (LAPL(A) and (H)) £65. So does it include LAPL privileges?, can i fly a C172 using the second year of my class 2 medical? i did ring the CAA and email them, guess what... yep ..... silence.

[VH-UFO]

Saw the title and thought it had domething to do with Quagmire.

[Level Attitude]

Unlimited validity National UK Private Pilot’s Licence (LAPL(A) and (H))

Unsure from this what Licence you are actually asking about.

1) A UK NPPL is valid for NPPL Privileges in a C172 until April 2015

2) A UK PPL is valid for LAPL Privileges in a C-172 until April 2015

3) An EASA LAPL(A) is valid (for LAPL Privileges) indefinitely in a C-172

Assuming all Ratings are current/Experience Requirements are met then
a valid LAPL Medical will allow you to fly (GP Med Dec also acceptable for Option 1) above)

Your Class 2 Medical will have Expiry Dates on it; which will be different for
Class 2 and LAPL. If the LAPL part is still in date then you are legal to fly.

[memories of px]

Many thanks for that, coming from flying a b777 with an ATPL, these EASA changes seem a nightmare compared to how i remember private flying, i was thinking of renewing my instructor/ examiner ratings, now i'm not so sure!

[Whopity]

So if you have just paid £65 you have an EASA LAPL. Why not a PPL with your previous experience and a Class II medical? The medical certificate states the expiry for various licence types and for a LAPL it will be 2 years for someone who has probably retired. Bear in mind with a LAPL you must have 12 hours experience in the 12 months immediately preceeding the day you fly!

I was thinking of renewing my instructor/ examiner ratings, now i'm not so sure!

Then a LAPL is not much good to you, you will need at least a PPL £73!

[Level Attitude]

with a LAPL you must have 12 hours experience in the 12 months immediately preceeding the day you fly

Was this a test Whopity?
I'll let you correct.

[Whopity]

Too many numbers whirring around and changing continually

FCL.140.A LAPL(A) — Recency requirements
(a) Holders of an LAPL(A) shall only exercise the privileges of their licence when they have completed, in the last 24 months, as pilots of aeroplanes or TMG:
(1) at least 12 hours of flight time as PIC, including 12 take-offs and landings; and
(2) refresher training of at least 1 hour of total flight time with an instructor.

(b) Holders of an LAPL(A) who do not comply with the requirements in (a) shall:
(1) undertake a proficiency check with an examiner before they resume the exercise of the privileges of their licence; or
(2) perform the additional flight time or take-offs and landings, flying dual or solo under the supervision of an instructor, in order to fulfil the requirements in (a).

And in case (b), even having a test, does not solve the requirements of (a)

[memories of px]

£65 PPL

well the caa have issued me with a little blue book, the licence says united kingdom private pilots licence, they charged me £65
i did a class 2 medical in 19th may 2013, so hoping to use the second year as for LAPL purposes, but the licence doesnt mention LAPL on it.
As i understand it, a class 2 is needed for instructing, and a class 1 if you want to get paid, over 60 itll only be valid for 6 months, so i wont renew a class 1 til i need to!

[Midlifec]

CAA website under staying legal, you cannot use a LAPL medical to validate an EASA PPL A, your licence is only valid with a valid class 1 or class2 medical cert.. No exemptions as far as they are concerned.

[memories of px]

scheme of charges

Conversion to an EASA Pilot Licence:
Limited validity National UK licence:
Professional Pilot’s Licence £139
Private Pilot’s Licence (excluding LAPL(A) and (H)) £73
Unlimited validity National UK Private Pilot’s Licence (LAPL(A) and (H)) £65
Limited or unlimited National UK Licence to LAPL(A) or LAPL(H) £41


b) Conversion of a National Private Pilot’s Licence (NPPL) to an EASA
Light Aircraft Pilot Licence (LAPL) £41

they charged me £65, so according to the scheme of charges it looks like LAPL privileges are included, whereas for £73 it is not.

[Whopity]

Did you ask for a LAPL? The type of licence is in Section II. It should say LAPL (A) or PPL(A). Section XII should be blank. If it's a PPL(A) then it does not give LAPL privileges. Oddly a CPL does!

FCL.305 CPL — Privileges and conditions
(a) Privileges. The privileges of the holder of a CPL are, within the appropriate aircraft category, to:
(1) exercise all the privileges of the holder of an LAPL and a PPL;

over 60 itll only be valid for 6 months,

No, You can instruct on a PPL with Class 2 over 60 and its valid for 12 months.

[Level Attitude]

just paid £65 to get my licence converted to easa

the licence says united kingdom private pilots licence

Then you were not issued with an EASA Licence as these all say 'European Union Flight Crew Licence'

It sounds like you have been issued with a UK PPL - What did you apply for?

Although Whopity is correct that an EASA PPL does not contain LAPL Privileges; a UK PPL is valid for LAPL Privileges in EASA Aircraft (eg C-172) until April 2015.

So you have a year in which to apply for an EASA Licence, either PPL or LAPL, on the strength of your UK PPL in order to continue flying EASA SEP Aircraft.

NB:

Unlimited validity National UK Private Pilot’s Licence (LAPL(A) and (H)) £65

You have correctly quoted this from the CAA Scheme of Charges but I have no idea what it means - The 'LAPL' in parentheses makes no sense !

[memories of px]

£65 ppl

on the form i did tick ppl and lapl, looking at what i have received,there are two pieces of paper, one says european union flight crew licence, the other says united kingdom private pilot's licence, they both say PPL (A), they both have entries in section X11, night,sep,instructor,examiner.
So the easa ppl doesnt include lapl privileges, but the uk ppl does. i'm legal according to level attitudes response.
ps i didnt put LAPL in brackets , thats as its written by the caa, i dont understand its meaning either.
As a holder of an ATPL i would have thought i qualify for every licence below this level, obviously not!

[Level Attitude]

looking at what i have received,there are two pieces of paper, one says european union flight crew licence...

It would have been useful if you had provided this information to start with.

on the form i did tick ppl and lapl

You were asking the CAA to do something they are not allowed to do. A person can only hold one EASA Licence (per aircraft category). CAA therefore had to chose for you as to whether to issue you with a PPL or an LAPL and, it seems, you were issued an EASA PPL at an incorrect low price. Presumably they opted for PPL as you also wanted Instructor and Examiner Ratings, and these cannot be added to an LAPL. Additionally they have issued you with a UK PPL free of charge (usual cost £35).
You are 'Quids In'

As a holder of an ATPL i would have thought i qualify for every licence below this level

If you hold an EASA ATPL, which you don't, then that is also valid as a CPL, PPL or LAPL.
If you held a non-EASA ATPL then, with certain caveats, you could apply for an EASA ATPL, CPL, PPL or LAPL - you 'chose' PPL.

So the easa ppl doesnt include lapl privileges, but the uk ppl does

Pedantic Hat On: No, a UK PPL does not contain LAPL Privileges - How could it, LAPL is an EASA construct with no UK equivalent. However, during the transition to EASA, a UK PPL may be used as if it were an LAPL in EASA aircraft until April 2015.

To prevent problems for yourself in the future I strongly suggest you go to a friendly flying school and spend 15 minutes with an Instructor: Show them your Licences, tell them what you want to be able to do, confirm how to gain or maintain the Privileges you want to use and be shown the regulations on which that advice is based.

[kevkdg]

Post April 2015 - What can a UK PPL be used for... Annex II aircraft only? If so with the same privileges as that afforded to the NPPL?

[Level Attitude]

Post April 2015 - What can a UK PPL be used for... Annex II aircraft only?

Yes

If so with the same privileges as that afforded to the NPPL?

If a valid Class 1 or Class 2 Medical is held then all the privileges of a PPL can be exercised.
If only an LAPL Medical or a GP Med Dec is held then a PPL can be used to NPPL privileges until the expiry date of the contained SEP Rating.

The underlined section above is a bit difficult to police as a valid medical is not actually required to revalidate or renew a Rating by an Examiner 'In the Field'. However if you did so and continued flying before regaining at least a Class 2 Medical (or converting to an actual NPPL with SSEA Rating) you would be illegal.

[kevkdg]

Cheers.


So, you can use Annex II aircraft hours to revalidate by exp. an EASA PPL or LAPL.


BUT can you use EASA aircraft hours to revalidate by exp. a UK PPL or NPPL post April 2015 given they are only valid for Annex II aircraft. Obviously you'd have to hold an EASA licence as well in order to fly EASA aircraft.

[Whopity]

Yes you can. Your UK PPL stil remains an ICAO licence accepted by all ICAO States outside the EU.

[A and C]

What !

Umpteen posts here and we have people of above average intelligence not sure despite holding a License fly a small single engined aircraft if they are allowed to do so.

If the pilot licensing system were a DVD player or a Fridge the small claims court would have now ruled it was of unmerchantable quality and we would get our money back.

The people who put in place this over complicated and strange system should ask themselves how we reached this level of complication and if they think that they have put in place something that is fit for the task intended.

[memories of px]

I give up

Well I'm off to get a class 2 medical, it seems the safest option
CAA still haven't replied to my email, couldn't answer my query
over the phone, local examiner was equally unsure, so still don't know
how to get a LAPL , never mind it's only money.