Teneriffe passes it's 'Use By' date?
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Sometimes I think we'd be better off without radio at uncontrolled
airfields and pilots looked out of the window a bit more!
airfields and pilots looked out of the window a bit more!
awareness, not replace any of their lookout.
These are not mutually exclusive. Radio should add to pilots' situational
awareness, not replace any of their lookout.
awareness, not replace any of their lookout.
Also I hear some A/G operators lapsing into some sort of pseudo control service giving a false impression of "security" to aircraft on the frequency, some of whom also seem to be unaware of the status of the "facility".
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I do understand your point, but I cannot agree with it:
If there is radio you can "tune it out" (either mentally, or actually) - what
you cannot do is "tune something in" which is not there - and you'll never
know whether you needed it.
And these are the same pilots who you trust to abide by the
correct non-radio procedures?
If there is radio you can "tune it out" (either mentally, or actually) - what
you cannot do is "tune something in" which is not there - and you'll never
know whether you needed it.
some of whom also seem to be unaware of the status of the "facility
correct non-radio procedures?
And these are the same pilots who you trust to abide by the
correct non-radio procedures?
correct non-radio procedures?
You seem to be under the impression that I think airfields should not have or use A/G (or Information) - this is not the case.
But what I am pointing out is that, in my opinion, some pilots rely too much on radio these days rather than using basic airmanship and looking out correctly.
The discussion on this thread has revolved around lots of theory about phraseology which is all well and good, some of which is a matter of opinion.
I am saying that there are more important basic matters such as lookout and how to fit into the traffic pattern.
Thread Starter
Sometimes I think we'd be better off without radio at uncontrolled airfields and pilots looked out of the window a bit more!
MNRATZs though?
It's an interesting concept. MJ
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Aviate - Navigate - Communicate
I agree that some pilots will concentrate so much on the C that
they lose something in the A and N (including the required Lookout).
That does not mean that C should disappear - which is what I believed
fireflybob to have indicated.
I now give myself a C minus for my own C and go off to do some A
I agree that some pilots will concentrate so much on the C that
they lose something in the A and N (including the required Lookout).
That does not mean that C should disappear - which is what I believed
fireflybob to have indicated.
I now give myself a C minus for my own C and go off to do some A
Thread Starter
Aviate - Navigate - Communicate
like father like son!
Indeed!
MJ
Last edited by Mach Jump; 22nd Feb 2014 at 20:34.
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It would also be a great improvement to flight safety if people actually followed the ANO wrt joining an uncontrolled field. Too many times have I been cut up by a sky god joining straight in on a busy circuit or performing the most blind visual join......,
Thread Starter
Too many times have I been cut up by a sky god joining straight in on a busy circuit or performing the most blind visual join......,
There is nothing wrong with the Standard Overhead Join (SOJ) nor is there anything wrong with joining directly onto any of the legs at circuit height, including 'straight in' approaches.
The main principle to remember, is that the onus is on the joining aircraft to adjust speed and/or position to 'fit in' with aircraft already established in the circuit. This is particularly difficult when joining 'straight in' and pilots doing so have to accept that, by the time they realise that they are going to conflict with an aircraft on base leg, there may be little option but to go around.
OK, now back to the real world.
The fact is that, at many uncontrolled airfields the circuit is little better than anarchy, with people joining right base in left hand circuits, descending on the live side, doing American style joins at 45 degrees to the downwind leg, barging straight in and expecting established aircraft to get out of their way, and the one I love the most, the pilot who is ideally positioned to join straight in but thinks this is not allowed. He/she then flies the wrong way, back up the downwind leg, then does a U tun and calls 'Downwind'! 
Other than try to set a good example ourselves, I don't really know what we can do about it. The ANO is very confusing, with the rules for colision avoidance often conflicting the ones for flight near an aerodrome, and the CAA don't help by taking their usual, head in the sand view that the only way to join a circuit is via the SOJ, as if radio had never been invented!
MJ
OK, now back to the real world. The fact is that, at many uncontrolled airfields the circuit is little better than anarchy, with people joining right base in left hand circuits, descending on the live side, doing American style joins at 45 degrees to the downwind leg, barging straight in and expecting established aircraft to get out of their way, and the one I love the most, the pilot who is ideally positioned to join straight in but thinks this is not allowed. He/she then flies the wrong way, back up the downwind leg, then does a U tun and calls 'Downwind'!
Yes, I'm not sure where MJ flies either. I've spent a lot of time flying from many uncontrolled airfields, and don't recognise the anarchy he describes. I'm not saying they're perfect, but nor are most controlled fields.
Generally speaking pilots are sensible and follow good practice and published procedures.
Incidentally in my opinion there are numerous reasons to fly an OHJ, with or without radio. For example:-
- Maintaining good height until in gliding distance of the runway
- Looking at the windsock myself
- Having a good look at the airfield, surface, what's parked close to the runway, and so-on.
- Keeping noise complaints down locally.
Not the only way to do things, but I like OHJs.
Can't say that I've ever seen that either. I've seen deadside joins, but there is a difference.
G
Generally speaking pilots are sensible and follow good practice and published procedures.
Incidentally in my opinion there are numerous reasons to fly an OHJ, with or without radio. For example:-
- Maintaining good height until in gliding distance of the runway
- Looking at the windsock myself
- Having a good look at the airfield, surface, what's parked close to the runway, and so-on.
- Keeping noise complaints down locally.
Not the only way to do things, but I like OHJs.
the pilot who is ideally positioned to join straight in but thinks this is not allowed. He/she then flies the wrong way, back up the downwind leg, then does a U tun and calls 'Downwind'!
G
Thread Starter
....and don't recognise the anarchy....
I exaggerated a little bit in that I don't see all those things everywhere I go every day. Some places are better than others as you say, but my perception is that a combination of misunderstanding, ignorance and people from other areas of aviation bringing their practices with them (eg. American style joins) is causing a gradual deterioration in circuit discipline, especially when airfields get busy.
MJ
