IMC Rating and IR?

[drivez]

Had an interesting experience at my local flying club the other week where a solo QCC had essentially got stuck at our airfield with closing cloud in a C172 that had an instrument fit in it.

All the instructors were busy and I was the only one not flying with an IR. He asked would I be able to fly him back to his home airfield. I said I couldn't because my IR is only valid on multi pilot airplanes.

Speaking to another guy yesterday who has a similar license and he said that the MPA IR carries across as an IMC rating regardless, asked our CFI who also thought this was the case.

I've checked the CAP and searched the internet but I can only find something along these lines in LASORS.

Anyone any insight in to whether I can operate my multi crew IR and carry this across as an IMC rating. Our CFI is a top guy very knowledgable so I have no reason not to believe him, but just wanted to make sure before I go blasting off illegally.

Thanks.

[S-Works]

Old UK CPL and ATPL licences had embedded IMCr privileges. JAA and EASA ones do not. So if you have a JAA or EASA licence then they were incorrect.

[drivez]

Thanks bose, when I couldn't find any reference that's what I feared. Same as the old PPL having a TMG rating attached, now I have to get one to take a TMG solo.

Thanks anyway.

[Whopity]

As Bose said it was a privilege and still is of a UK National licence; ANO Schedule 7.

Same as the old PPL having a TMG rating attached

Not quite, it included a SLMG rating that only needed a C of T to activate it. Whilst most SLMGs and TMGs are the same aircraft, there is no TMG rating attached.

[3 Point]

I had an old UK ATPL with the embedded IMC rating and also an JAA ATPL. I converted to Part FCL in November and my EASA licence now has IR(R) based on my old UK embedded IMC. Make sure you ask the CAA for this rating if converting from an old UK professional licence!

Happy landings

3 Point

[Whopity]

You can also get a lifetime UK National Licence for another £40.

[BEagle]

Speaking to another guy yesterday who has a similar license and he said that the MPA IR carries across as an IMC rating regardless, asked our CFI who also thought this was the case.

That was indeed once the case, but without any consultation, the CAA ended this privilege at least 6 years ago - except, that is, for UK national professional aeroplane licence holders at CAA or ATPL level, who have embedded IMC privileges.

I was on the point of raising an objection to this high-handed Belgranist behaviour, but then one of my FIs (a ba 767 captain) went and failed his IMC test with a CAA examiner in one of the rear seats.....

[fireflybob]

I also have this challenge. At the moment am operating under an Irish EASA licence (in a previous life I flew for a certain low cost airline...and they wanted us to have Irish licences so converted from UK one).

My instrument rating is not current (but intend to renew some time in the next few weeks) so I cannot teach for the IMC Rating or indeed any applied instrument flying until I renew my IR.

I suppose I could resurrect my UK national ATPL as another way to able to instruct for the IMC Rating.

Additionally the IAA cannot put an Aerobatic Rating on my EASA licence for a year or so because they haven't got round to writing that into their licensing rules yet (I think that's what they said!).

Is it just me but I find these changes to licensing absolutely bizarre - have seriously thought about jacking it all in but I still enjoy the flying and feel I have good stuff to pass on.

We seem to spend more time immersed in all this bolleaux rather than what's really important.

[fireflybob]

I was on the point of raising an objection to this high-handed Belgranist behaviour, but then one of my FIs (a ba 767 captain) went and failed his IMC test with a CAA examiner in one of the rear seats.....

Beags, am going to show my ignorance here but no doubt you will put me right - I had assumed that a valid (UK) ATPL included IMC Rating privileges without the need for an IMC renewal flight test - from your comment it would seem that is not the case?

Confused.com

[BEagle]

The ba captain had a JAR-FCL ATPL(A); such licences do not include embedded IMC privileges.

Incidentally, to exercise IMC privileges on an EASA aeroplane after 7 Apr 2014, as a minimum you will need an EASA licence which includes an IR(R). A UK ATPL(A) will not be acceptable for flying EASA aeroplanes after that date, except within the scope of LAPL(A) privileges - which are VFR only.

Ryanair had good reason to require their pilots to hold IAA licences as otherwise it would have been very difficult for LPCs to be conducted across a range of Member States due to examiner briefing requirements. Much easier to bring everyone under the one state of licence issue.

If you are quick, you can apply to the UK CAA for a change of state of licence issue and to convert your old UK ATPL. If it is still valid, you would then hold a Part-FCL professional pilot licence with an IR(R) - and this could also include an Aerobatic Rating if you can meet the conversion report requirements stated in CAP 804.

[drivez]

Thanks for all of the replies, unfortunately my license is firmly EASA so I wouldn't be eligible as I understand it to have an IR(R) put on to my license. I'm actually considering just getting the SPA IR and saving a lot of fuss, also opens up my options going in to Europe.

I'm with Fireflybob though, I've spoken to the CAA a lot in the last 12 months and it seems as though regulations are being tweaked virtually all the time. The fact is i'm qualified to shoot a CAT 2 in the day job, yet not qualified to fly in to some cloud in a Cessna on the weekend.

I appreciate the replies though and glad I asked!

[Whopity]

my license is firmly EASA so I wouldn't be eligible as I understand it to have an IR(R) put on to my license.

So long as its a UK issued EASA licence you can have an IR(R) on it. I have one alongside a standard IR.

[maxed-out]

Whopity, does that mean that the IR(R) can still be renewed when I renew my SPA-MEIR in the same way that I got a 25 month extension on my IMCr when I did the ME-IR renewal?

Thanks

M-O

[Whopity]

I see no reason why not, there would be little point repeating much the same test.

[maxed-out]

Thanks Whopity.