FI(R) without CPL?

[tobster911]

Just a quicky - Is it possible to become an FI without having a CPL, then using the hours gained as an FI to get a CPL (Seems like a cheaper option to me, and more likely to secure employment if the employer doesn't have to pay me.

Thank you

T

[Duchess_Driver]

It is possible to be an FI in EASA land without a CPL. But...

You still need to have demonstrated CPL level knowledge (i.e passed the CPL ground exams!)
You need more hours/experience to be an FI without than you do with.
You can't be paid.


Don't always look at the bottom line cost wise!

The Pre-Req's and priv's for an EASA FI are detailed in Subpart J of EASA PART FCL (Google 1178/2011R)

[taybird]

I believe you can now be remunerated for FI work without a CPL.

[AirborneAgain]

I believe you can now be remunerated for FI work without a CPL.

That's correct. See part-FCL.205.A (b).

[sapperkenno]

Yes, you can be remunerated as a PPL FI, and can also teach without CPL knowledge if you want to teach only towards the LAPL and NPPL.

I know this as I only hold a EASA PPL, but have been working as a CRI for almost 2 years, and an FI(R) instructing NPPLs for 6 months or so.

[Whopity]

It has always been possible to be a FI with just a PPL however; it is not a cheaper option because a PPL holder requires 150 hours PIC in order to do the FI Course wheras a CPL holder requires only 100 hours PIC. In both cases the candidate must have passed the CPL theoretical knowledge exams except to instruct for a LAPL.

[AirborneAgain]

It has always been possible to be a FI with just a PPL however;

Maybe in the UK (I wouldn't know), but certainly not in every other European country -- not even without remuneration!

[tobster911]

So, I can get a PPL, the do the FI(R), and still be paid for it without having to do a CPL?

Could somebody please talk me through the exact requirements (minimums) to become a flight instructor?

Thank you

T

[AirborneAgain]

So, I can get a PPL, the do the FI(R), and still be paid for it without having to do a CPL?

You can be an FI, yes. I don't know what you refer to by FI(R). Is that a national UK rating? The EASA rules make no reference to an FI(R).

Could somebody please talk me through the exact requirements (minimums) to become a flight instructor?

The absolute minimums for a PPL(A) holder to apply for an FI(A) rating are:

200 hrs flight time on aeroplanes or TMGs

• of which at least 150 hours as PIC
• of which at least 20 hours as PIC on VFR cross-country
• of which at least 30 hours on SEP
• of which at least 10 hours is instrument flight instruction (received)
• of which at least 30 hours is the FI flight training itself

5 of the SEP hours must be in the 6 months before doing the "pre-entry flight test" for the instructor training.

You must also have done a VFR cross-country flight (as PIC) of at least 300 NM including full-stop landing at two different airports.

Unless you are going to instruct LAPL(A) students only, you must also have the CPL theory.

Then there are additional requirements depending on what kind of instruction you are going to give. I strongly suggest you read the source material (part-FCL Subpart J).

Disclaimer: I may have made a mistake in compiling the figures above!

[tobster911]

Excellent, thank you...

Best start earning some money then to afford all this :/

Regards

T

[sapperkenno]

To clear things up. FI(R) is "Flying Instructor (Restricted)... Until the new FI(R) holder has given 100 hours of dual instruction, and obtained 25 solo sign-offs (excluding first solo's) while being "supervised" by another FI, they will be restricted. This restriction means they can't send anyone on a first solo, or first solo Navex, and they are to be overseen by a supervising FI.
Once they are unrestricted, they can do everything in an FI's remit and don't need their hands holding by a responsible adult. Interestingly the rules are rather vague about how the supervising FI is to go about their supervision.

So on passing the training and flight test, the licence holder will become an FI(R). Once they meet the requirements to lift the restriction, they pay some money to the CAA (no big ****ing surprises there then) and get a new page for their licences (which hopefully they haven't cut up) showing they are now an EASA FI.

Then they can happily instruct for the PPL (if they have EASA CPL theoretical knowledge exam passes) or just the NPPL/LAPL if they don't...

[Whopity]

but certainly not in every other European country

In all JAA countries since July 1999.

The EASA rules make no reference to an FI(R).

FCL.910.FI FI — Restricted privileges
(a) An FI shall have his/her privileges limited to conducting flight instruction under the supervision of an FI for the same category of aircraft nominated by the ATO for this purpose, in the following cases:

[AirborneAgain]

In all JAA countries since July 1999.

A long time, but it was even longer that that when I last checked (until the EASA rules...)

FCL.910.FI FI — Restricted privileges

Certainly, but to my understanding this is not a separate rating. You have an FI, you just can't do all kinds of instructing until you have the necessary experience.

Please correct me if I am wrong (and kindly refer me to the relevant part.FCL section).

[Whopity]

Certainly, but to my understanding this is not a separate rating.

You are quite correct. The UK issued FI(R) as a seperate rating under JAR simply because it was a replacement for the former AFI rating however; it was never intended to be a seperate rating. It was probably the easiest way to adapt the licence issuing software!

[Mickey Kaye]

Whopity

Any chance you could expand on this a little.

Are you saying that the UK are the only state in Europe where an FI(R) once they meet 100 hours 25 solos sign offs. Have to send there licence to their NAA, pay a fee, before they become unrestricted?

Do you know how other European states do it?

[RTN11]

Is it possible to become an FI without having a CPL, then using the hours gained as an FI to get a CPL (Seems like a cheaper option to me

In what way is it cheaper?

You still need 150 hours PIC to become a flying instructor, so no money saved there.

You need to do CPL(A) theory. The more common route is to do ATPL theory, do the CPL(A) (with or without IR(A)) and then do the FI(A).

With ATPL groundschool you have to get BOTH the CPL and the IR within three years of the last exam, or the exams expire, so unless you are very sure of your timeline on getting CPL and IR, you could end up repeating groundschool, which will cost you even more.

[tobster911]

My reckoning for it being cheaper is that I didn't think you had to have as many hours, and if I'm instructing during the time it takes, I don't have to pay for my flights?

I am probably wrong here, but that's the way I looked at it.

[RTN11]

Are you saying that the UK are the only state in Europe where an FI(R) once they meet 100 hours 25 solos sign offs. Have to send there licence to their NAA, pay a fee, before they become unrestricted?

This is all historic stuff. The UK used to issue an AFI rating (assistant flying instructor), which limited your privileges, then once you met the requirements you took a test and applied for a full FI(A) rating. This is still the way that it works for microlight instructors on an NPPL(A).

This was then replaced by issuing an FI(R) rating, which would have the restrictions removed in a similar way.

Now you get a FI(A) rating on your licence from the onset, but with restricted privileges printed in the ratings section. When you have your 100 hours and 25 sign offs, you apply and have the restriction removed, but it does not change the actual rating you have like it did before. I think this is how it is done throughout Europe.

Under JAA you couldn't earn money from instructing on PPL, but with EASA you can, although you've always required more hours to add the FI(A) to a PPL compared to a CPL.

[Gally2]

Why under JAA can you not earn money?

[Whopity]

The JAA no longer exists!

When it did the privileges of a PPL were:

(a) Privileges. Subject to any other
conditions specified in JARs, the privileges of
the holder of a PPL(A) are to act, but not for
remuneration, as pilot-in-command or co-pilot of
any aeroplane engaged in non-revenue flights.